To think there are very few allies against Anti-Semitism?

[Longingdreamer]

This month, I have had experienced Anti-Semitism twice. Both times I was with my children.

Both times, my children were distressed, and no one around did anything to protect us or raise the alarm. When we asked for help, we were dismissed. We were in very busy public spaces both times: a tube platform, then a high street.

I reported the first episode to the police. I'm not even sure if it's worth reporting the second episode. Sadly it feels so mainstream, and the authorities are not supportive when I report it either.

If you were unable to recognize that, in the brief paragraph I was quoting, I was highlighting that the attitude "British Jews who believe Israel should exist should go and live there" was antisemitic, then I have little hope for you.

I’m sure she didn’t mean permanently, but rather go live in Israel temporarily to see exactly what you are supporting, warts and all, and perhaps become more aware of the abuses going on there done in the name of Zionism that are contrary to its professed values.

But they didn’t say that. They said people who support the genocide in Gaza (and it is a genocide) shouldn’t be welcome in this country (although I don’t agree with that because we allow all sorts of abhorrent views without deporting people). But they never said Jews in general should leave.

You are welcome to hold that perspective.

I am clear on my opinion. We are witnessing a genocide. Our government is too scared to stand up against it.

There are Brits who either agree with it OR by default are accepting of it.

Another one who has no idea of what Zionism means

Again, what does Zionism mean since you seem to be claiming a definition different to the accepted one?

I have stated several times...the right of Israel to exist and Jewish self determination.

What's yours?

Exactly this

I mean if they're offering to pay for me to go on holiday...fab. I would love to visit Israel....I hear the nightlife and beaches are amazing...not to mention the food!

Only a very stupid or ignorant person would pretend that 'Zionists get out' doesn't mean 'Jews get out'. 80-90% of British Jews are Zionists.

Racists aren't welcome here.

“a political movement that was originally begun in order to establish an independent state for Jewish people, and now supports the development and protection of the state of Israel”

I guess it depends on how you define “development and protection” because Netanyahu claims that is exactly what he is doing through his abhorrent actions. So it’s not quite as simple as saying that Zionism equals believing Israel has the right to exist. It’s usually used to describe those who do not see an issue with how Israel treats Palestinians and the encroachments they make on their land.

Zionism, broadly, means believing that Israel should continue to exist as a Jewish state. Could be with smaller or larger borders than it currently has.

This has already been explained several times in the thread, as has the fact that the British left use the term differently from most.

@Slightyamusedandsilly you are a racist. Go away and find other like minded racists. You aren't welcome here.

It’s usually used to describe those who do not see an issue with how Israel treats Palestinians

Is it? By whom?

Zionism is a broad church, which contains positions I find entirely acceptable and some that I find abhorrent.

‘I mean if they're offering to pay for me to go on holiday...fab. I would love to visit Israel....I hear the nightlife and beaches are amazing...not to mention the food!’

I’m fascinated by the history of the country but the kind of people who would go on holiday to Israel while it starves the Gazan’s to death with impunity are probably the same ones who think going to Dubai is high end and classy. Oooh think of the nightlife, never mind that a few miles away a genocide is taking place! Think of the sun & the sea

You are adding your own words. It has already been explained multiple times here.

Anyway, back to the purpose of the thread, which is Anti-Semitism in the UK. Can we please ignore the small brained racists who have tried to detail it?

There is the expectation that Zionists support the military, hence the draft. I've had acquaintances who went to Israel (pre-the current situation) who went to join the military.

By quite a lot of people. Okay then, there are mild (Israel has the right to exist and shouldn’t encroach further on Palestinian land) versions and extreme ones (Israel has the right to ethnically cleanse the land of Palestinians and expel them from their homeland). The first I find unobjectionable and the second I find disgusting.

Expected by who? Why would people be expected to join a foreign military?

Honestly, it is true.

There is a disconnect. Most British left wing folk who condemn Zionism do not realize they are using the term wrongly.

It does become a problem when they are made aware of that and persist, unabated, but most are not intending to use it hatefully.

I'm sure the need to educate them is exhausting and it shouldn't be on your plate, but I do think its worthwhile to know that the disconnect exists.

I'm so sorry this happened to you OP. I'm not surprised though, as you say it feels completely mainstream these days.

Have you reported these incidents to CST?

Oh I know and I agree entirely. I thought it was telling that they used the word "usually" as if it's the accepted definition rather than some sort of left wing nonsense....

While this is true, misusing the word "Zionism" to attack only the more extreme forms of it, is an example of antisemitism - even if its often unintentional.

This is ever more ridiculous.

Israel is the Jewish state. The Star of David is the national flag. Hebrew is Israel’s official language.

Of course anti-Israel campaigners - who don’t care about any other conflict - oppose Israel because it’s Jewish. Proportions of non-Jewish Israelis and comparisons with the UK are irrelevant.

Anyway, what’s now clear is that the anti-Israel mindset is implacable and irredeemably bigoted. So the issue is to combat antisemitism in practice, not to try to argue against it, which has proved fruitless.