To think there are very few allies against Anti-Semitism?

[Longingdreamer]

This month, I have had experienced Anti-Semitism twice. Both times I was with my children.

Both times, my children were distressed, and no one around did anything to protect us or raise the alarm. When we asked for help, we were dismissed. We were in very busy public spaces both times: a tube platform, then a high street.

I reported the first episode to the police. I'm not even sure if it's worth reporting the second episode. Sadly it feels so mainstream, and the authorities are not supportive when I report it either.

Thank you, yes I am in touch with them. I am so thankful that they exist: needed now more than ever.

I think it is usual in the UK, in terms of the number of people who misuse it.

Still wrong, mind.

That's not a proper definition - what does 'the right of Israel to exist' mean in practice?

Yeah okay then. But seriously with attitudes like that (that any critique is racist) how can you not see you are encouraging antisemitism? If there is no difference between saying I think Netanyahu is awful and that Israel is committing atrocities and screaming abuse at a man for wearing a kippah, then people will just shrug when someone complains of antisemitism.

What would you like me to do...write some sort of political manifesto? People will have varying ideas of what should and shouldn't happen and what government policy should be. Thats the details part. The overall belief is that Israel has the right to exist as the Jewish homeland and we have the right to self determination.

Tell me...do you think Israel shouldn't exist? If so, how would that work?

Respectfully, I disagree.

I oppose Israel's current actions in Gaza, and criticizing the Israeli government is most certainly not inherently anti-semetic.

I do have some sympathy with the idea that legitimate criticism of Israel is wrongfully dismissed as antisemitic. On the other hand, though, I find that a lot of criticism, intended or purportedly intended to be of its current government, is actually antisemitic.

I think the British left (of who I am a part) are the biggest problem, here. They/we frequently use antisemetic language, or express antisemitic beliefs (as we have seen in this thread) but then demand that everyone acknowledgedes that criticising Israel =/= being antisemitic.

People who genuinely don't want to see the two matters conflated should be among those who take the most care to avoid it - but generally, the people who object conflating the two in defence of Israel's government are the same people who conflate the two when attacking Israel (and, therefore, Jews).

But the details are the bit that matters.

Almost all people believe Israel has a right to exist.

Believing it has the right to continue with the Palestinian genocide isn't acceptable.
Believing that it should peacefully coexist with Palestine is acceptable.

I'm not saying Jewish people don't experience racism it's purely that in London I have never noticed Jews. Surely it's better to ask so I know. There is nothing 'dark' about not noticing a woman is wearing a wig which is what a PP said singles woman out.

I think Hamas missed that memo

Again, Zionism (in the modern age) means believing in the continued existence of a Jewish state (usually, within the historic region of Palestine).

That is how most of the world uses the term.

So you have never been to Israel and don’t think there is any political “manifesto” for Zionism? Seriously? You have never heard of the WZO’s platform titled the Jerusalem Program (latest edition February 2024) and how agreement on all of the points is required for membership as a Zionist of the WZO?

The WZO says Zionism means agreement with its entire platform, the Jerusalem Program.

Here is an English version
https://www.wzo.org.il/page/extraordinary-congress/jerusalem-program/en

Ah OP, I am so sorry that this happened to you, and that this thread went the predictable way. FWIW, I believe you.

I have almost given up contributing to these threads. I'm a knackered, cynical descendant of Holocaust survivors, a Zionist who believes Netanyahu should rot behind bars, and someone who is constantly amazed by the level of public ignorance about Jews, Israel, the Holocaust, Zionism and antisemitism.

Jews are a tiny community in the UK, and most people simply don't see antisemitism in action. That doesn't mean it's not happening. So people, please stop relying on the evidence of your own eyes and do some research! Learn something!

I don’t feel safe wearing my Jewish star anymore. Without it people on the street would have no idea I’m Jewish. With it I’m a symbol and I had several uncomfortable reactions that made me exhausted or frightened or angry. I cannot live at that level of anxiety every day and I worry I couldn’t protect my children if something happened. I feel very guilty for taking advantage of my privilege to choose whether or not I present Jewish.

in summary it’s not safe. Whatever anyone thinks about foreign wars or history or Zionism or not, it’s not right that my children and I (and the OP’s family) live in this sort of fear. And it’s not just about Israel, this is just the catalyst and an excuse. Every single generation has this story and I’m so very fed up to know that it’s going on and on forever.

My great grandparents fled the pogroms in Russia and Ukraine, my grandparents had rocks thrown at them on their way to school while their cousins died in Europe, my parents weren’t allowed to join the local country club, I had pennies thrown at me and horrible things written on my desk at school, my daughter had a boy shove her in the hallway yelling ‘free Palestine’ while she cried. It just goes on and on forever.

No I don't think that. Do you think that Palestine should be recognised as a Sovereign State?

What do you mean by pro-Pal antisemites?

There are no fewer EDL types now. Indeed the racist, Antisemetic, bigoted, EDL types are a growing demographic.

@Longingdreamer I'm sorry this has happened to you. Try to find the Christians if possible. Many of us recognise the Jews as God's chosen people.

IMO, Zionists should live in Israel. But many don't.

Could you even imagine saying that about any other group? Because it honestly sounds no different to me than any other "send them back to where they came from" rhetoric.

The Nazis were Christians.

No, they were pagans. They considered Christianity to be weak and Judeo centric. Christian Protestant churches were brought under the control of the Reichs church. They failed to dismantle Christianity.

The Nazis were Christians.

They weren't, specifically. And there was that fascination with esotericism and Eastern religions, including the Swastika stuff.

Well they claimed to be although some in the leadership believed in some weird mysticism and astrology, including Hitler and Himmler. But yes many pogroms and expulsions of Jews have been carried out by Christians. And christians do not see Jews as gods chosen people.

Yes, and they tried to replace Christian festivals with pagan Nazi ones, like the Winter Festival.

The WZO is not the gatekeeper of the term, and not all Zionists would accept every aspect of its program.

In any event, the program as expressed does not say "must support Netanyahu and his government's actions" so I'm not sure I understand what point you are trying to make.