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Thread 10: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

1000 replies

DisappointedReader · 23/07/2025 21:20

The Observer The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...
2nd Observer https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found
3rd Observer https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-the-truth-behind-the-blockbuster-book-video
4th Observer ‘I felt I was being gaslit’ – the landlord who helped Ray...
Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement Raynor Winn
Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^
Thread 2 Thread 2. To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet
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Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5370609-thread-4-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?
Thread 5 Thread 5: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet
Thread 6 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5372494-thread-6-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-
husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?
Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5373425-thread-7-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?
Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5375023-thread-8-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?
Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5376712-thread-9-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters welcome. It would be helpful to read at least the four Observer items above before posting. There are currently 10 items on The Observer website The real Salt Path | The Observer

To all - No saltiness. Keep to the path. Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for nine very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in a healthy and civil fashion is very welcome.

Keep calm and eat fudge.

Thank you

To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

[[https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-real-salt-path-how-the-couple-behind-a-bestseller-left-a-trail-of-debt-and-deceit The real Salt Pat...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?*

OP posts:
Thread gallery
61
Fandango52 · 29/07/2025 13:25

FurryHappyKittens · 29/07/2025 13:21

The whole thing about the degree is that in the National Trust interview he says he has a degree in botany.

A forumer discovered that a man of a similar age called Tim Walker has a degree in botany.

'Our' Tim Walker got a full student loan to study for a degree in 2014/2015, including a maintenance element.

Another forumer pointed out that he wouldn't have got a full student loan if he already had an undergraduate degree. Maintenance loans are for first degrees only.

So either he was lying about having a degree when he worked for the NT (and this now may be borne out by what Ros Hemmings has said about his demeanour at the time), or he's lied about not having a degree in order to get a full student loan.

It is a bit of creative thinking to imagine he borrowed the botany degree, but if another Tim Walker had one, knowing what we know about them, then it's quite feasible he saw this other man's name somewhere and took the degree for himself in order to get the National Trust job. His thinking being if anyone looked into it they'd find a Tim Walker with a botany degree. This was pre Internet.

Edited

Thanks, Furry. Potential inconsistency to add to the list, @AldoGordo, unless it’s already on there - sorry if so! I wonder if Chloe H has been in touch with the National Trust place that TW worked for. I know this is a relatively minor thing, but would be interesting to see if it leads anywhere.

SereneLilac · 29/07/2025 13:31

Fandango52 · 29/07/2025 13:19

Thanks! I’ve found a reference here - https://wikishire.co.uk/wiki/Plas_yn_Rhiw#cite_note-Plas-3 - to TW working as head gardener at Plas yn Rhiw. I think this is the reference used in previous threads.

I can’t see a reference in the link to TW having a botany degree though. Maybe it mentions the botany degree in the full article mentioned on the link, but that’s been removed - https://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northwest/outdoors/placestogo/gardens/plasynrhiw.shtml - has been removed. Not sure if anyone on here could access it previously and it’s just been removed recently, or if it was removed a while back?

Also, given TW’s age, perhaps he did his botany degree - if he did one - before student loans came in. If that’s the case, maybe he would qualify for a loan? I’m not sure what the rules are for people who graduated before student loans came in and who want to do another degree.

It probably is that link. It's a few threads back, but no idea where.

I looked into doing a second undergrad degree myself around 2009, having had a grant for my first one, but there was no financial help available. I would have had to finance the whole thing, fees included, myself.

Fandango52 · 29/07/2025 13:34

TheBrandyPath · 29/07/2025 13:17

These are notes I made before I joined this thread:

This from Daily Mail comments: I knew Tim back in the early 2000s when he worked in Plas yn Rhiw, not far from Aberdaron on the Llyn Peninsula, as head gardener. Also recall him talking about doing plastering work on a property in France at the time.

This led me to more about them then - this from 2004:
Tim came to the garden ten years ago. He was living in Staffordshire with his wife Sally and their two young children -- and working for the family business as a master plasterer, but had a degree in botany. Law clerk Sally was originally from Gwynedd. It was when - one day managed to get out of the house and down the road on his own that they decided they wanted to live somewhere safer for children. Within three weeks Tim had resigned from work, their house quickly sold, and they moved to a rented house near Criccieth to begin their new life, before finding Pen y Maes near Rhoslan, the dilapidated house they were looking for, so that they could "restore a bit of rural Wales". It was, says Tim, "a life-changing experience to restore a house as a key piece of history."

Others have then posted, the much later, article of Moth with his fellow students on the horticulture course.

Ooh another possible inconsistency I’ve spotted on this article. It says RW is originally from Gwynedd (in Wales), but she’s definitely from Melton Mowbray - or the nearby area - isn’t she? Her accent is also definitely not Welsh and definitely more Midlands!

FightingTemeraire · 29/07/2025 13:36

Fandango52 · 29/07/2025 13:34

Ooh another possible inconsistency I’ve spotted on this article. It says RW is originally from Gwynedd (in Wales), but she’s definitely from Melton Mowbray - or the nearby area - isn’t she? Her accent is also definitely not Welsh and definitely more Midlands!

Edited

In fairness, that could be someone’s genuine misunderstanding. Though Raynor sounds about as Welsh as I do. Yes, born in Melton, grew up near Dunstall, close to Burton on Trent.

BestIsWest · 29/07/2025 13:36

If you’ve got one undergrad degree you definitely have to finance a second yiursel in England and Wales, regardless of whether you had a grant.

TheBrandyPath · 29/07/2025 13:37

Fandango52 · 29/07/2025 13:34

Ooh another possible inconsistency I’ve spotted on this article. It says RW is originally from Gwynedd (in Wales), but she’s definitely from Melton Mowbray - or the nearby area - isn’t she? Her accent is also definitely not Welsh and definitely more Midlands!

Edited

Yes, I thought it may be a way of showing their 'connection' to the area!

I wrote this (a while back):
TheBrandyPath · 23/07/2025 20:15

Exceptional talents of the Winn Winns as known so far:
Getting a great job at a NT garden with a botany degree and also being awarded a grant to do a 3 year horticultural degree
Winning a prestigious £10,000 prize for a first novel, having tried to recover the cost of your house by a raffle of a first novel

PullTheBricksDown · 29/07/2025 13:46

Catwith69lives · 29/07/2025 12:27

I'm intrigued by various comments made by SW in interviews that she wrote TSP based on margin comments written by Moth in the margins of Paddy Dillon's guide to the SWCP. I think that is highly unlikely for several reasons:

  • Moth was carrying the guidebook in the pocket of his camo trousers. It would have got drenched during the walk. He is never described in the book as taking notes in the guidebook
  • In one interview SW claims that she had originally planned to take an A5 notebook on the walk to make notes, but had decided not to in order to reduce the weight of their backpacks
  • however, she contradicts herself in the TSP when she describes Moth writing notes in a notebook in pencil
  • the photo attached below shows that SW's comments (it seems to be her handwriting) in the margins of a Paddy Dillon SWCP guidebook which looks pretty pristine. It's pretty obvious from these comments that these were written up afterwards
  • There is also what appears to be the bottom of a postcard of the Minack Theatre protruding from the previous page (you can see the writing Murray King (they make postcards and are based in St Ives) and the Minack Theatre logo if you look closely.

So what? Well it suggests to me that TSP wasn't based on notes taken during the walk in the margin of Paddy Dillon's guidebook as claimed by SW on numerous occasions. It was much more likely based on recollections of the walk annotated into a second copy of the SWCP guidebook some 2 years after the walk was completed, massively increasing the likelihood that significant amounts of the walk were embellished.

In one interview SW claims that she had originally planned to take an A5 notebook on the walk to make notes, but had decided not to in order to reduce the weight of their backpacks

Picking out this bit, it sounds highly implausible. For one thing, that implies that they coordinated their packing across both backpacks. That would be an obviously sensible thing to do, but given their various conversations about 'did you pack my painkillers?' RW not having a hat and so on, and being surprised when Moth suddenly gets out a radio to listen to the Ashes, all that suggests haphazard packing where neither knew what the other was carrying. Secondly, the radio (only mentioned as being used once!) would weigh a lot more than an A5 notebook, and therefore their packing decisions were badly made and inconsistent. Seems much more likely to me this was an excuse for not making notes as they did the walk.

(Back now after holiday travel break: enjoyed the Observer talk yesterday, didn't add questions as others were covering that ground - get well soon @Uricon2 ! 💐)

mauvishagain · 29/07/2025 13:52

AldoGordo · 29/07/2025 13:06

Many thanks for the info. Sadly doesn't help much. I wanted to know because there's a video on RW IG account in which she is at a loch beneath Suilven and breathily plugs the paperback of TWS coming out. What I found intersting was TW walks across the shot in the background and looks perfectly stable. So I was curious to know if there could be another inconsistency here if the book mentioned anything at odds to do with his abilities.

Ps..I'm amazed it takes until Ch 8 that they are only in Assynt. There must be a lot of preamble before they start their walk..?

@AldoGordo - I've mentioned before that there is also a video from April 2024 on SWs IG. This shows TW walking and he looks fine - no stumbling, or shuffling, or dragging his leg. He uses an umbrella as a walking pole for a few steps then forgets and merrily swings it instead.

Fandango52 · 29/07/2025 13:57

PullTheBricksDown · 29/07/2025 13:46

In one interview SW claims that she had originally planned to take an A5 notebook on the walk to make notes, but had decided not to in order to reduce the weight of their backpacks

Picking out this bit, it sounds highly implausible. For one thing, that implies that they coordinated their packing across both backpacks. That would be an obviously sensible thing to do, but given their various conversations about 'did you pack my painkillers?' RW not having a hat and so on, and being surprised when Moth suddenly gets out a radio to listen to the Ashes, all that suggests haphazard packing where neither knew what the other was carrying. Secondly, the radio (only mentioned as being used once!) would weigh a lot more than an A5 notebook, and therefore their packing decisions were badly made and inconsistent. Seems much more likely to me this was an excuse for not making notes as they did the walk.

(Back now after holiday travel break: enjoyed the Observer talk yesterday, didn't add questions as others were covering that ground - get well soon @Uricon2 ! 💐)

Hope you enjoyed your holiday!

I think these are all good points.

Also, given the chaos and stress of the lead-up to their SWCP walk, I’m just wondering why they would want to take notes on the walk?

I know the reasons for the walk as given in TSP are that they ‘have nothing better to do’ and having nowhere else to go due to Moth’s failing health and their house repossession. But why would you want to make notes on a walk connected with such a horrible period of your life? I know it’s apparently so that Moth can remember it later, but it doesn’t really add up - I feel like they’d both remember the walk pretty well. Unless, of course, you want to make notes so you can write a book about it later and then sell it for loads of money? I think people on here previously suggested they did the walk with the aim of writing a book afterwards.

PullTheBricksDown · 29/07/2025 14:10

FurryHappyKittens · 29/07/2025 13:21

The whole thing about the degree is that in the National Trust interview he says he has a degree in botany.

A forumer discovered that a man of a similar age called Tim Walker has a degree in botany.

'Our' Tim Walker got a full student loan to study for a degree in 2014/2015, including a maintenance element.

Another forumer pointed out that he wouldn't have got a full student loan if he already had an undergraduate degree. Maintenance loans are for first degrees only.

So either he was lying about having a degree when he worked for the NT (and this now may be borne out by what Ros Hemmings has said about his demeanour at the time), or he's lied about not having a degree in order to get a full student loan.

It is a bit of creative thinking to imagine he borrowed the botany degree, but if another Tim Walker had one, knowing what we know about them, then it's quite feasible he saw this other man's name somewhere and took the degree for himself in order to get the National Trust job. His thinking being if anyone looked into it they'd find a Tim Walker with a botany degree. This was pre Internet.

Edited

I think the idea that he had a botany degree was a pork pie. It's a pretty unusual subject to study for a start - see screenshot below of a search about this. At the time he'd have done it, looks like maybe only Bristol and
Reading offered it as a course? So how likely is it that he'd actually done that degree, as opposed to fibbing his way into the head gardener job and counting on no one checking?

Thread 10: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?
Catwith69lives · 29/07/2025 14:16

PullTheBricksDown · 29/07/2025 13:46

In one interview SW claims that she had originally planned to take an A5 notebook on the walk to make notes, but had decided not to in order to reduce the weight of their backpacks

Picking out this bit, it sounds highly implausible. For one thing, that implies that they coordinated their packing across both backpacks. That would be an obviously sensible thing to do, but given their various conversations about 'did you pack my painkillers?' RW not having a hat and so on, and being surprised when Moth suddenly gets out a radio to listen to the Ashes, all that suggests haphazard packing where neither knew what the other was carrying. Secondly, the radio (only mentioned as being used once!) would weigh a lot more than an A5 notebook, and therefore their packing decisions were badly made and inconsistent. Seems much more likely to me this was an excuse for not making notes as they did the walk.

(Back now after holiday travel break: enjoyed the Observer talk yesterday, didn't add questions as others were covering that ground - get well soon @Uricon2 ! 💐)

It's very odd because on p28 of TSP SW specifically states that she packed only the stuff she couldn't do without including an A5 exercise book and pen. Yet in a subsequent interview, when asked about this, she claims they left it behind. Yet in the TSP she mentions Moth writing in pencil in an exercise book.

DisappointedReader · 29/07/2025 14:17

FightingTemeraire · 29/07/2025 13:36

In fairness, that could be someone’s genuine misunderstanding. Though Raynor sounds about as Welsh as I do. Yes, born in Melton, grew up near Dunstall, close to Burton on Trent.

Edited

Do I remember something about Raysal's grandfather being from that part of Wales?

OP posts:
LiteralLunatic · 29/07/2025 14:20

He might not have been eligible for student finance if he already had a degree but I don’t know how SFE could possibly check whether an applicant already has a degree if they didn’t receive a student loan previously, which he wouldn’t have, he would have received a grant from his local authority. I have a feeling it is just a checkbox on the form that you have to tick. Of course, if he lied, that would be fraud and SFE can ask for immediate full repayment… Maybe The Observer (and SFE) should look into that. I am pretty sure that degree results used to be published in the papers. The Times maybe?

It is possible he studied for a degree in botany/ecology but didn’t finish it. He might have been eligible for a student loan in that case. If you withdraw from a course, you can get still get funding for 4 years study in total. It can be split between 2 degrees if you drop out of the first degree. I guess a lie about his qualifications is slightly better than student loan fraud 😂

FightingTemeraire · 29/07/2025 14:22

Fandango52 · 29/07/2025 13:57

Hope you enjoyed your holiday!

I think these are all good points.

Also, given the chaos and stress of the lead-up to their SWCP walk, I’m just wondering why they would want to take notes on the walk?

I know the reasons for the walk as given in TSP are that they ‘have nothing better to do’ and having nowhere else to go due to Moth’s failing health and their house repossession. But why would you want to make notes on a walk connected with such a horrible period of your life? I know it’s apparently so that Moth can remember it later, but it doesn’t really add up - I feel like they’d both remember the walk pretty well. Unless, of course, you want to make notes so you can write a book about it later and then sell it for loads of money? I think people on here previously suggested they did the walk with the aim of writing a book afterwards.

I think RW has to omit anything that makes the walk look like a planned holiday, or them going back to a way of travelling on the cheap that they seem to have done a lot before they had children, or as though they had other options other than walking.

Or as if the walk was for the purposes of writing a book.

One of the oddities of the two sequels is that there’s no reference to note taking at all, either, even though these were very obviously walks undertaken because RW had a book contract and a readership.

Whereas, say, Simon Armitage, also walking two LD paths for two books, is completely upfront about recording voice notes during the days (and the awkwardness of trying to find places to step away from any walking companions to do it) and that he spends hours every night writing up longer accounts. Because these are walks done at least in part, for the sake of being written about.

Whereas RW sticks to the initial TSP line that all the walks she and Moth do are desperate attempts to forestall his decline, not in order to produce a book by a deadline.

AzureStaffy · 29/07/2025 14:23

OhEsme · 29/07/2025 09:50

Sorry if this has already been posted, but here's today's new podcast from Chloe Hadjimatheou – the one that she referred to in her meeting last night:
https://observer.co.uk/listen/the-slow-newscast/the-real-salt-path-1

Ha! SalRay on the Welsh farm: "we'd put our heart and soul into." And over sixty thousand quid of someone else's money.

AldoGordo · 29/07/2025 14:24

mauvishagain · 29/07/2025 13:52

@AldoGordo - I've mentioned before that there is also a video from April 2024 on SWs IG. This shows TW walking and he looks fine - no stumbling, or shuffling, or dragging his leg. He uses an umbrella as a walking pole for a few steps then forgets and merrily swings it instead.

Edited

Yes, I saw that too. When they did the Thames path. Is your medical opinion his gait is normal/close to normal?

SennyP · 29/07/2025 14:25

Catwith69lives · 29/07/2025 07:27

I think Chloe H needs to track down Grant, the the tall, gaunt man in his mid 40s who was a multimillionaire wine merchant and mistook Moth for SA! Photo of SW in his orchard.

Edited

Having spent a bit too long playing online detective, I wonder if this is Bill Cole's farm (Haye Farm) at St Veep. I've marked where it could perhaps have been taken on the attached image.

Thread 10: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?
Fandango52 · 29/07/2025 14:27

Catwith69lives · 29/07/2025 14:16

It's very odd because on p28 of TSP SW specifically states that she packed only the stuff she couldn't do without including an A5 exercise book and pen. Yet in a subsequent interview, when asked about this, she claims they left it behind. Yet in the TSP she mentions Moth writing in pencil in an exercise book.

Oh I missed those bits! Forgot about those mentions. And didn’t people on here and in previous threads say something about Moth (and maybe also RW) writing notes in the margins of the SWCP guidebook they took with them?

AldoGordo · 29/07/2025 14:29

Re the Botany degree. I found the proper link. The cited link in wikishire was for the wrong page and someone has edited TW out of the Wikipedia article...twice, despite someone putting back what they originally removed but with some accuracy.

Anyway, here is the link and a screenshot where I've highlighted the degree bit.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040907014133/www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northwest/outdoors/features/rhiw.shtml

Either TW told the journo he had a Botany degree or the journo made it up. Pick a side.

Thread 10: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?
TheBrandyPath · 29/07/2025 14:32

FightingTemeraire · 29/07/2025 14:22

I think RW has to omit anything that makes the walk look like a planned holiday, or them going back to a way of travelling on the cheap that they seem to have done a lot before they had children, or as though they had other options other than walking.

Or as if the walk was for the purposes of writing a book.

One of the oddities of the two sequels is that there’s no reference to note taking at all, either, even though these were very obviously walks undertaken because RW had a book contract and a readership.

Whereas, say, Simon Armitage, also walking two LD paths for two books, is completely upfront about recording voice notes during the days (and the awkwardness of trying to find places to step away from any walking companions to do it) and that he spends hours every night writing up longer accounts. Because these are walks done at least in part, for the sake of being written about.

Whereas RW sticks to the initial TSP line that all the walks she and Moth do are desperate attempts to forestall his decline, not in order to produce a book by a deadline.

"Anyone who's read TSP knows the worst of me now"

23mins re: writing Landlines. Before this she describes her approach to writing the previous 2 books. Sorry, if I keep sending the same interview - but it is quite revealing:

Bing Videos

raynor winn cancels writing - Search Videos

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=raynor+winn+cancels+writing&mid=525048EA7C254071C4A6525048EA7C254071C4A6&FORM=VIRE

AldoGordo · 29/07/2025 14:33

SennyP · 29/07/2025 14:25

Having spent a bit too long playing online detective, I wonder if this is Bill Cole's farm (Haye Farm) at St Veep. I've marked where it could perhaps have been taken on the attached image.

[Edit] Perhaps. Except Grant was supposedly renting it for a holiday. And it's not near Bude where they were at the time.

FurryHappyKittens · 29/07/2025 14:33

DisappointedReader · 29/07/2025 14:17

Do I remember something about Raysal's grandfather being from that part of Wales?

No one in her family going back a few generations is from Wales. Her parents honeymooned there, and I think one of her great grandfathers died in Wales, although he was from the Midlands.

Choux · 29/07/2025 14:33

Catwith69lives · 29/07/2025 14:16

It's very odd because on p28 of TSP SW specifically states that she packed only the stuff she couldn't do without including an A5 exercise book and pen. Yet in a subsequent interview, when asked about this, she claims they left it behind. Yet in the TSP she mentions Moth writing in pencil in an exercise book.

And that’s probably why she started giving what sound like repetitive interviews because she learnt a script and didn’t deviate from it so she didn’t say the wrong thing!

DisappointedReader · 29/07/2025 14:34

Thank you to our on the spot reporters in person and online yesterday evening. I am attempting to catch up in spare moments and can see that thread eleven is looming...

OP posts:
Catwith69lives · 29/07/2025 14:35

Fandango52 · 29/07/2025 14:27

Oh I missed those bits! Forgot about those mentions. And didn’t people on here and in previous threads say something about Moth (and maybe also RW) writing notes in the margins of the SWCP guidebook they took with them?

The margin comments in the picture below were clearly written after the walk was completed: ie Treen....what an experience or Mr 'John's" place....who would of guessed it! The latter comment refers to the meeting with the American lady who was looking for John le Carre's house but couldn't find it. So SW could only have subsequently discovered its location and circled it in the guidebook and added the margin comments..

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