Thread 10: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...
2nd Observer https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found
3rd Observer https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-the-truth-behind-the-blockbuster-book-video
4th Observer ‘I felt I was being gaslit’ – the landlord who helped Ray...
Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement Raynor Winn
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New posters welcome. It would be helpful to read at least the four Observer items above before posting. There are currently 10 items on The Observer website The real Salt Path | The Observer

To all - No saltiness. Keep to the path. Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for nine very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in a healthy and civil fashion is very welcome.

Keep calm and eat fudge.

Thank you

Nice list @AldoGordo . Also Tim being called Tim/Ray/Moth and Raymoth buying their son a holiday in Rome despite being homeless and living on £50 a week (not sure of the exact timeline on this one).
I entered an extract from How Not to Dal Dy Dir alongside extracts from TSP and TWS to ChatGPT, and ChatGPT said that they are very different in style and unlikely to be by the same writer for lots of different reasons. It is perfectly possible for her to have changed her writing style though, I know.

@FlyAgaricc Oh that's interesting, I thought they'd been considered similar. Is it more the themes and plot details, and connected website with house lottery grift?

Has anyone managed to identify the novel Chloe Hadjimatheou refers to in that Press Gazette article — that she says appeared on Amazon within a few hours of her story breaking, purporting to be the ‘real’ story of TSP, and which she assumes was an AI creation?

Beyond The Salt Path: The True Story of the Lies, Deceit, and the Blockbuster Book That Rocked the World: Amazon.co.uk: Paschal, K.c.: 9798291692400: Books

@AlertCatcoming back to this. Are you saying you read in a first edition version that Moth’s real name was Ray? But you have since sold the book so can’t prove it?

This is interesting (to me at least ) as - if your memory is accurate and that really is the case- it shows some editing by PRH between editions and removal of a factual inaccuracy. If, after the book was a bestseller they decided to do a bit more due diligence on it and removed that easily provable inaccuracy then what else did they change? And did they uncover any other inaccuracies which they let stay because the story needed it to remain eg the severity Moth’s illness? If they did then PRH are complicit in the misleading of the book’s readers.

@Stravaig ChatGPT says:
Extract One differs significantly from Extracts Two and Three in narration, tone, and style: it uses a third-person, fragmented, and intensely poetic voice that feels mythic and symbolic, whereas Extracts Two and Three employ a clear, first-person, grounded, and reflective memoir style with precise natural observation. The mood of Extract One is dark and apocalyptic, focused on identity loss and elemental fury, contrasting with the resilient, gritty survival and quiet mindfulness found in the other two. Additionally, Extract One’s Welsh coastal setting is implicit and mythic, while Extracts Two and Three are rooted in specific, real locations in southwest England. These differences suggest Extract One is unlikely to be by the same author as Extracts Two and Three...
Extract 1 is quite different stylistically and tonally — possibly from a different author or a very experimental piece by the same author.

I entered the first two pages of TSP and TWS.

I know that ChatGPT isn't The Oracle btw

You could potentially add: how RW and TW are connected to Gangani Publishing and Izzy Wynn-Thomas’s identity.

Could the difference be explained by the following:

• Dal dy Dir is unashamedly fiction v TSP and LL which are meant to be factual
• Dal dy Dir probably hasn't been edited whereas TSP and LL almost certainly have

I was looking at my 2019 copy of TSP. It says published in 2018 by Michael Joseph and then 2019 by Penguin. I know Penguin Michael Joseph is the full name of the publisher but I was interested to see this. Are they two separate departments under the same umbrella? Does this have any significance as to the altered text in the 2019 edition and those going forward?

Thank you. @Catwith69lives. Hmm, I agree with Chloe H that this looks like a low-quality AI-generated rush job attempt to cash in on her story. The author’s name is even missing a capital letter on the cover.

It’s listed as ‘unavailable’, presumably due to the Observer checking out the IP.

I don’t know why it’s referred to as a ‘novel’ by the Press Gazette, though. It’s certainly purporting to be non-fiction.

Shall we add the ‘Moth - real name Ray’ to the list of inconsistencies, @AldoGordo? It might be worth adding because it’s also mentioned in this Independent article (which we’ve discussed a bit in previous threads): www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/the-salt-path-book-journey-walking-coast-path-cornwall-devon-homelessness-a8502256.html

@Catwith69lives yes, could be that. Good point. It does read quite differently imo but this could be down to lots of reasons. She could have been just starting off with her writing and experimenting with different styles and voices.

I think different genres are published under different names sometimes, though all under the same ‘umbrella’

MJ is just the commercial imprint of Penguin, called after Michael Joseph, who founded his own imprint, originally as a Gollancz subsidiary imprint — acquired by Penguin in the 80s. Has some huge bestsellers, especially in women’s commercial fiction, like Marian Keyes and Liane Moriarty, and also celebs who’ve crossed over into writing.q

https://www.penguin.co.uk/about/publishing-houses/penguin-michael-joseph

True, but I don't think it's an inconsistency as such. We know for certain they were connected to Gangani and they've admitted to the house lottery. I think it's more of a side mystery as to who Izzy is. Though, if it was RW it would undermine TM's statement about not knowing RW could write (which is covered on the list due to this), and also the debut writing award she got.

Agreed!

I think Moth may be one of those people who have gravitational pull type charisma. Many actors/actresses have it, it encourages worship. They make you want to do anything for them. Despite being short of food, Moth gives his away to others worse off etc in books. Lots of acts of service like this.

How did Moth earn a living, he was a master plasterer, property renovator & gardener? Career trajectory? Confused on this.

Agree. Like you say, he seems to have done a lot of different odd jobs. Just speculating, but maybe he had family money to support him? And RW worked too, so they would have had two incomes (and obviously the money from the embezzlement topping up their wages for a time…)

Whatever path they take in the future embezzlement and deceit will be forever imprinted on their dusty footsteps.

I watched the film yesterday and loved every minute!!

(I live in France and it is not available there so I am very happy to be in London and to have been able to watch it on Amazon Prime before it completely disappears!)

I would imagine the hardback was published under the Michael Joseph imprint and the paperback under Penguin.

Yes, it fits, doesn’t it.

RW certainly comes across as quite in awe of him, almost like she can’t believe she ‘bagged’ this incredible catch, and has hero worshipped him throughout their relationship. He may well have been quite a charismatic person to begin with, but I imagine the way RW bestows a kind of god like character on him has magnified these traits.

Signed first editions going for several hundred quid here, plus a couple of cheaper options.

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=raynor%20winn&attrs=sgnd&ds=30&dym=on&rollup=on&sgnd=on&sortby=20&tn=the%20salt%20path

I think the scandal will make these more valuable, not less – especially as they're unlikely to produce any more books (unless they self-publish)

I’ve seen this handsome dandy type in relationships before & often there is unequal power with the woman running to accommodate. The men drift & are misunderstood in the working world as they see it & have many admirers. Raymoth seem to adore each other but there’s more than a hint of Ray being outshone by him in the books as she sees it.

Ray says to Jason Isaacs on The One Show, when he praises Moth To paraphrase ‘Oh I know. I am nothing compared to him’.

Does anyone know where this photo was taken? It’s from the 2018 Independent article linked to a few pages back. I ask because that tent looks brand new and completely clean and shiny. It looks like it’s the first time it has been put up so the photo should be from the start of the SWCP. Unless they bought a new tent mid walk?