Nurse said something strange about breastfed babies

[Chocolateegg123]

My 8 week old had her jabs today. The nurse at my GP surgery was taking an awfully long time getting down to business and kept faffing around such as explaining how to use a syringe for the calpol for about ten minutes. Then, she asked me if I was breastfeeding and when I answered yes, she asked how it was going.

I was honest and explained I’d found it hard and we had to combi feed etc but that my mental health had been really awful whilst breastfeeding and so I have considered moving over to formula.

She then completely matter of factly stated… “breastfed babies are more intelligent so if you can continue feeding her your milk you should.”

I was kind of taken a back as I didn’t think this was true but also is this kind of advice ok for a health professional to give? Whenever I have gone to a local breastfeeding clinic or spoken to a professional about my struggles they have never ever said anything like this?

I guess I want to know if I would be unreasonable to complain about this nurse? She has been unprofessional in the past when I went to have a vaccine during pregnancy and now this. However - is it true that breastfed babies are more intelligent? This has added to my guilt and anxiety over my breastfeeding journey now. Help!

Bonding and attachment are pretty robust, so I wouldn't expect feeding method to have significant impact on that.

My point was that people who are exclusively breastfeeding for long periods of time are more likely to engage in baby-led and responsive feeding practices, for example feeding little and often if that's what a baby is requesting. Bottle feeding doesn't really lend itself to this type of feeding, except maybe at the beginning. In other words, parents are watching babies and responding more to their cues, and maybe it's this that's having an impact on brain development rather than the milk. It's also absolutely true that once babies get to the age where they can hold their own bottles that parents who bottle-fed are more likely to be at an arm's length during feeding, also that bottle propping and getting people with less of an emotionally intense relationship with a baby involved in feeding is common practice.

What rubbish. It is true. I have twins and a singleton and did both breast feeding and formula. The eye contact was the same with both methods. Impossible to bottle prop and no need to. I was waaaay more relaxed and happier formula feeding, we all were. Much better interaction.I loathed every minute of breast feeding and they knew it- alongside being hungry. They were so much happier and healthier on formula.

But you will acknowledge that bottle propping happens and isn't unusual, even if you yourself never did it?

If we're sharing anecdotes - I exclusively breastfed all three of my children for long periods of time. I used to read a book or watch TV when I was feeding. I think that's pretty normal. Now people would be looking at their phones!

Just because you didn’t do this doesn’t mean it doesn’t happy. Often see small babies on social media with bottles on cushion ‘feeding themselves’ and I have also often heard ‘I can’t wait until they hold it themselves’

That being said I spent a lot of night feeds breastfeeding on my phone/ watching tv to keep myself awake

Would add that if you emotionally can't cope with breastfeeding, then nobody should expect you to do it or criticise you for not doing it. Looking after babies is hard enough!

Yes. And another thing with breastfeeding it’s always the mother who does the feed. With bottle feeding that’s not often the case. Dad does some feeds, granny does some, aunt carol does some.

Again this reduction in focused contact time with the primary carer affects synapse development. Plus random relatives may not be as good at maintaining focus on the baby in the way the mum (possibly dad too) would.

and bottle feeds tend to be of a shorter duration compared to a breastfeed.

unless you control all the variables which to my knowledge has never been done you can’t be confident what makes the difference.

Personally I think, and I believe the evidence supports this, what makes the most difference is how parents interact with their child and engage them in conversations, play, reading, different experiences. That may or may not be affected by parents IQ but again it’s hard to say if it’s the actual parents IQ which makes a difference.

We know that babies born to parents where the mum has severe post natal depression (but a high IQ) where the mum has struggled to interact with the baby are less likely to have a high IQ compared to babies where mum has a similar IQ and had a very focused relationship with her baby. But such studies have been very small so may not be overly trustworthy.

One of my reasons for using formula was so DH and grandparents could give bottles. One of my favourite photos is of DFil giving DS one of his first bottles. In laws lived a long haul flight away and that bottle feed was a very special moment. Helped develop an amazing bond which continues to this day.

I’ve known bottlefeeding parents to not even be in the same room as the baby. If the poor son was lucky another relative or child’s sibling was doing it but not always. I’ve walked in where the propped up kid has been left completely unattended
That simply cannot happen in the breastfeeding scenario.

You seem to be aware of a lot of poor parental decisions - in my family and friendship group, I’m not aware of any.

You will acknowledge that bottle propping does happen, even if you personally haven't witnessed it?

I've witnessed it many times over the years, particularly with slightly older babies.

A study from an urban population in Mexico found that 27% of bottle-feeding mums were doing it with week old babies, and 67% were doing it at 4 months. More common in low income households and where parents are young. I appreciate that in the UK people maybe have more access to safe feeding advice, but then I remember the Infant Feeding Survey, which flagged that an incredibly high percentage of formula feeds aren't made up correctly, so clearly not all parents are following official guidance.

There's a reason why bottle propping gadgets are on sale online - I did a quick search and there are loads!

Yes I mean you absolutely could replicate lots of the things about the bf relationship while ff, but the vast majority of people don’t actually do this, and see some of the differences as a benefit.

It’s also true that what is best for the mother isn’t necessarily best for the baby and vice versa, which is why these decisions need to be taken in a wider context and why statements about IQ benefits are a bit pointless really.

This is definitely one of the loveliest perks of formula imo. Being able to share feeding. I know it really helped with my DH and DS bonding in those precious early days and weeks (I pumped sometimes) and helped me to get more sleep. Having DH and the odd relative feed him didn't in any way impact our bond or us being together, if anything it improved it because being able to get away for a few hours sleep uninterrupted kept me sane and meant I was delighted to be with DS rather than thinking omg, I need some rest and space, there's no way he can be away from me ever.

I think the downside of having to be the sole person responsible for feeding the baby 24/7 is rarely, if ever mentioned to mums hoping to breastfeed. Only when I had DS did the enormity of it sink in. After thinking about my own health, physical and mental, I realised pretty quickly that if I ebf and didn't get him used to a bottle I would probably drown.

It's true that not everyone can cope with the emotional and physical intensity of being the only one to feed the baby. I feel lucky that I could.

As I said earlier - bonding is robust. There's no good evidence that being the one to feed or being the one who doesn't feed the baby makes any difference to the degree of attachment you have as a parent. My DH never bottle fed any of our children. Not once. Made zero difference to his relationship with them that he or I could perceive.

"Yes I mean you absolutely could replicate lots of the things about the bf relationship while ff, but the vast majority of people don’t actually do this, and see some of the differences as a benefit."

I'm not sure that you could replicate a lot of things about the breastfeeding relationship - certainly not hormonally or in terms of the actual material experience of feeding. I agree with this though: "and see some of the differences as a benefit." Usually the benefit is to the parent, in having more control over feeding, as bottle feeding lends itself to parent led approaches to feeding, rather than baby led. It's also helpful for women who want to spend less time responding to their baby's cues (not saying there's anything wrong with this!)

"It’s also true that what is best for the mother isn’t necessarily best for the baby and vice versa, which is why these decisions need to be taken in a wider context and why statements about IQ benefits are a bit pointless really." Not sure they're pointless if they're considered within the context of the lives of individual parents. It's just part of the information landscape of modern parenting.

By pointless I guess I mean considering them in a vacuum. I don’t think anyone breastfeeds because they think it will benefit their children’s IQ.

And by replicating some aspects - I mean that you could have one person give every bottle feed, could do so responsively and on demand, and could hold the baby close as you do it - but nobody in the real world who ff does this for every feed as you are required to do when ebf.

"By pointless I guess I mean considering them in a vacuum. I don’t think anyone breastfeeds because they think it will benefit their children’s IQ."

I'm not sure. I suspect some people do. I think most people choose to breastfeed because they feel it's better for their baby. If they've seen information suggesting it has a positive impact on brain development this might have been one factor in their choice.

Exactly this!

Statistically breastfed babies are more intelligent. BUT it’s not necessarily because they are breastfed!

Just did a search on bottle propping devices - awful things although I also think it bad feeding your baby and not watching them because you’re on your phone all the time. They are no better.

@Parker231 breastfeeding your baby means that your baby is held close to your body, feeling your heartbeat, breathing in your smell, whether you are looking into their eyes or not (my babies often closed their eyes while bf anyway).

By definition bottle propping devices exist so that you don’t have to be anywhere near your baby to feed them. The two experiences are incomparable for the babies.

When bottle feeding my babies they were cuddled close, felt my heartbeat, smelt me, usually held my finger whilst I looked at them

Sorry - I was responding to where you said bottle propping was just as bad as bf while looking on your phone - what you’ve just said is irrelevant to that?

What an absolute tool. I would complain. That nurse can and will do a whole lot of damage to Mums if they’re struggling.

Also, she’s not right. The evidence shows that there is a correlation between higher IQ and breastfeeding. This is because rightly or wrongly women from higher socioeconomic backgrounds tend to breastfeed. Breastfeeding is not causing high intelligence. I’m sorry she said this, what an idiot

No difference between my formula fed and breastfed children, if anything my oldest is above average intelligence and i was told "gifted" by her teachers and she was formula fed from 3 days old, so I don't think how babies are fed factors in at all

I think going on about “bottle propping” is a reach. Decent parents don’t do this. If someone is “bottle propping” there are bigger issues at play then their lack of breastfeeding imo

Exactly. If they compared the development of children from the same socio economic background, breast or bottle fed, they would probably find no difference.

Or, as in my case, maybe a difference at the outset, because DS2 was very weak and breast feeding was too much like hard work for him. He did have developmental delays - but they were what caused the bottle feeding choice not vice versa. And he caught up to get a first from a brilliant uni, so that powdered milk didn't ruin his chances in life.