To be glad schools are finally hitting back

[Teachingquestion]

Over the last couple of days I've seen more stories about schools introducing new rules and sending students home who won't comply.
I'm in a really tricky school about to do the same (when we start back) and the staff are so relieved. Teachers on here : are you glad to see it?

Perhaps the UK ought to reconsider automatic progression (technically its not automatic progression, students can be held back but so rarely done it might as well be considered automatic progression). I suspect there will be some difference in behaviour - who wants to be left behind while their mates go to a different class?

But saying that, I doubt it'd happen because then it would cost even more to educate those students that are kept back and do more years in school.

Inadequate parents creating lawless feral kids need sterilising . It’s a shame schools have to step in . Society is breaking down and anything that can stop the decline is a good thing . How are unruly kids ever going to survive in a workplace if they have never followed rules or boundaries. Or maybe they are just assumed to be another pile on the scrap heap .

When I was at school I never had to put up with children swearing abusively, starting fights in the classroom, being verbally and physically aggressive to adults, bringing knifes and other weapons to school etc etc I was a quiet, hardworking child, if I had I would have been traumatised and possibly become a school refuser. I have friends whose children have anxiety from being in classrooms with children like this FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

Strict boundaries help most children feel safe, I am all for that.

My kids go to a ‘strict’ school where they are taught brilliantly in calm classrooms. The teachers are dedicated and kind. Some of the rules feel silly and they’ve received detentions for the stupid BUT rules are rules and it’s a small price to pay for an education that I know is not being constantly disrupted with poor behaviour. There are bigger things for parents to complain about, believe you and me, instead of focusing on whether school A let them wear PE kit during the hot weather and school B just let them take off their blazers.

Parents need to spend a day in schools where boundaries are not clearly in place! It’s not pretty.

Show me, an instance when a child, was suspended for forgetting a pen?

And the lawless kids, will be in a class with younger children to bully

Not many would want to risk the shame of being kept back, with their mates probably taking the piss out of them and moving on.

Better to get them through the education system as quick as possible and then back to being their parent’s problem at 16. Who will then blame everyone else for why their angel didn’t get any GCSEs and for some reason can’t find a job.

@nearlylovemyusername

'Predators'?

Nearly half of all children excluded from mainstream schools have SEN. The percentage of children with SEN in the mainstream school population is around 17%.

Children who end up being excluded are more likely to

• have a history of being in social care
• come from severe socio economic disadvantage
• are about 10 times more likely to have mental illness
• are four times more likely to have a diagnosis of SEN

And being excluded from school is an absolute disaster for them because it cuts them off from the only access to support services and from input from capable adults that many of them desperately need.

As far as the assumption that school exclusion is just correlated with youth crime, well yes that's a reasonable assumption, but there's actually some research pointing to it also having a causal relationship with youth crime. www.bi.team/blogs/do-school-exclusions-increase-crime/

@Nasrine but if being in school doesn’t work it doesn’t work whatever the reasons

a parent can wave an EHCP around as much demanding it be provided in full but if a school can’t hire another TA for love or money then what exactly can they do?

if you have a 14 year old boy refusing to be taught by a female teacher because “they should be in the kitchen looking after a man” what exactly can you do when you have 25 other pupils desperate to be taught by one of the best English teachers around who happens to be female? Do you sack her and get a male supply to please the one child or do you remove them from class because no one is getting anything done whilst he shouts across the classroom?

these are the decisions that now have to be made across the land daily if you accept that all students deserve and equal chance you have to make decisions based on that, if you as a parent want your child kept in that school that parent needs to work with the school to reinforce what the school is asking not make excuses “it’s his ADHD” really does ADHD make you a sexist prick?

it helps no one having a child who can’t cope on a room with 25 other teenagers, who will be normal teenagers, chatty, noisy, joke around from time to time, in classes taught by “humans with vaginas” the horror, that child isn’t learning, neither are the others - so whilst you can have some sympathy with the child and their parent that they might be a more difficult child to discipline that sympathy grows thin after the 4th lesson disrupted because of this increasing nonsense. Isn’t it better they go home to mummy because she’s in the kitchen surely, to be looked after by a female they think are there to serve them, just not serve them any English education, no that is wrong.

It was only a matter of time before schools “fought back” as it’s unsustainable at the moment.

(many SEN and disadvantaged kids thrive at our academy because they want to learn)

@frozendaisy

Your absolute contempt for these children and for their families is clear from your tone and from the content of your post.

😞

I work for my local IAS service. I guarantee it happens.

Tbf , in most countries the keeping back is based on academics rather than behaviour, and we are talking really low levels academically.

You seem to be mixing up so many issues there and lumping them into one. Many SEN children are not trans. Many children from different religions do not have SEN. Children do not get an EHCP because they are sexist. If an EHCP isn't covering the needs of the DC, you call an emergency meeting with the local council to review it. Any decent teacher would be aware of that process. Sadly many don't care to learn the legal process involved in their job and would rather illegally excluded a child. That is the schools failure.

Really? Just forgetting a pen once (or 10 times) and nothing else?

Yes and no. The issue is, what do we do with these kids? Go back to the concept of “uneducables” ? Keep them in their chaotic, toxic, abusive, racist homes? How will society benefits from having a bunch of teens with no positive role models, no education, no prospects, unemployable , allowed to roam free with nowhere to go and nothing to do? We need to think long term here , and more people turning to crime, going to prison, needing to be on benefits, having babies (which get stuck in the same cycle) won’t benefit anyone.

Interestingly, I've just read an article about how the UK's worst school has been transformed.

It was inadequate for over a decade and teachers were on strike due to dangerous behaviour. Behaviour was "uncontrolled" and "dangerous" with lessons being "regularly disrupted".

Pupils did "not feel safe at school because of the very poor behaviour".

It has now been transformed by a new regime, focusing on strict uniform, behaviour and punctuality.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/sheerness/news/i-m-proud-to-go-here-now-the-remarkable-turnaround-of-one-327577/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR4fYJv14K72PZa17m465zwdeDLtj5q7uwmExZYpCGi7d8kHXp93NNi90-r7ggaempy3-LbdbUpjsaTNAeNvk2w#

I've been saying this on MN for years! We really do need to stop schools and teaching being dictated according to age and the automatic moving up year by year whether the pupil is ready or not, whether academically or behaviourally.

Obviously not a permanent "holding back" year after year, but maybe just an automatic right for a one year hold back, with maybe a second time for exceptional circumstances.

It's a good time to do it now with the forecast reducing numbers in schools over the next few years.

If we can't do that, then there needs to be more of "mixing it up" in the same year, for pupils who aren't progressing, either due to being around "bad influences" or other reasons. I.e. form swapping, class swapping, etc. Do it at the first signs of problems such as disruption, bullying, etc., before the issues get too serious and formal disciplines/suspensions etc are needed.

If a pupil starts secondary in a "bad" environment of a form, i.e. being bullied, too many disruptive pupils around them, they're basically stuck there for 5 years and that can kill their education stone dead. However, if it was easier to shake up a bit, swap forms, etc., nip it in the bud, and the kids who want to learn and grow have a better chance.

Behaviour and punctuality - yes, but I'd strongly suggest that the uniform element was marginal at best.

Yes. Many of our local schools operate a 3 strike policy for things as meaningless as pens. 1st strike detention, 2nd strike internal isolation, 3rd strike suspension.

I had a teen on my caseload who was recognised as a young carer and doing a lot of care for their two younger siblings. Shoes broke, got hold of a spare pair until they could afford regulation shoes. Suspended as the temp ones weren't regulation.

As much as behaviour is a major problem, schools are trying to tackle it by being zero policy on the tiny things. All that is doing is making punishments meaningless as they are so disproportionate for the minor things. It is making children hate schools. It isn't working. Anyone who works within a LA or IAS service could tell you how bonkers so many of the suspensions are.

The reason it would have been transformed is by kicking out all of the kids who can't manage it.

Stopping the pupils who will go on to generate income of the future should not be the option.

Clearly those children and families need services and input, but forcing them into classroom where not only does the child not achieve anything it stops others as well should not be continually flogged until an amazing teacher leaves the profession.

There is a shift from the pupils right now, well there seems to be, it’s subtle, but it’s there. The disruptive pupils get isolated more and more as they get older because other pupils think they are dicks for fucking up another lesson, or challenge their viewpoints in the class. So they aren’t getting education and worse social isolation. I know I know their parents will probably be demanding the school gives them friends as well but you can’t and shouldn’t make another 14 year old be friends with someone they dislike.

As kids get older they aren’t bothered or scared about calling out the disruptive ones. Why should they be it’s the truth.

Other articles mention rebuilding trust with pupils and parents and the school being split into four separate groups so children know who to go to when they need support. I'd imagine that is the real change here, consistency so teachers support children quickly when they need it.

@Badbadbunny

The headteacher would disagree. He says uniform has made a huge difference.

@Sendcrisis2025

Suspensions are down by three quarters, but the new head has been clear he will not allow a few students to continue to disrupt the life chances of other students.

I would suggest the previous environment which included gangs roaming the corridors and students and staff being assaulted was not great for most SEN students.