To be glad schools are finally hitting back

[Teachingquestion]

Over the last couple of days I've seen more stories about schools introducing new rules and sending students home who won't comply.
I'm in a really tricky school about to do the same (when we start back) and the staff are so relieved. Teachers on here : are you glad to see it?

Your sentence construction and punctuation are poor. Could do better…

Why send or keep your child in a school you think is stupid? Blind leading the blind surely. Stupid schools surely will produce stupid pupils?

If a parent thinks the rules and school is stupid probably best to move the child to a none stupid school. Everyone would be happier.

FWIW I know of a few parents who deliberately send their kids into school with the wrong socks or their mobile phones at the bottom of their bags (not allowed) because the ‘rules are stupid’ and are faux shocked when there is a consequence. Cue a Facebook post, ‘awww hun’ comments and complaint. Setting up their kids to fail because they think the rules are stupid is also stupid and unfair on their own kids.

Mine used to time it for tests… They’d express fury when I told them they’d have to be accompanied by an invigilator for exam board exams…

We had one who came in pished during the Nat 5 prelim and disrupted the whole bloody thing.

Mummy worked in a law office and threatened to sue us for suggesting that her precious was inebriated. The empty vodka bottle must have been planted and it was unreasonable of us to object to the yelling and table banging.

Kid had been a free transfer from another school. The LA doesn’t do permanent exclusions - only managed whole-school transfers.

If uniform is supposed to be such a leveller, then why do so many of them cost hundreds to kit a kid out?

I think what many forget is that schools are dealing with hundreds, sometimes thousands of kids. Yes some rules seem petty and silly but trying to keep 32 children in a class safe, occupied and learning is a totally different ball game to home school or PRU/specialist setting.
I really feel that a whole variety of different settings are needed and people need to get out of the idea that mainstream is somehow superior.

I work in a school where sometimes, despite behaviour meeting the criteria for exclusion, we instead keep some children in 'inclusion' at school because horrifyingly, it is safer for them to be at school than at home.

Not always that easy. You may send your child to a perfectly sensible school, only to have an academy takeover and/or a new head, which is a classic time for stupid rules to be imposed because it's so much easier than improving teaching and learning. If your child is established at the school, taking them out is potentially harmful, especially if they are coming up to GCSEs or A levels.

In any event, why should schools and heas be exempt from challenge? It would be silly to claim they are infallible. Doesn't it make sense to try to improve them from within rather than vote with your feet?

The key to providing an education for the majority of students is to get the highly disruptive minority out of the way. They shouldn’t be allowed to wreck the life chances of others in the name of inclusivity. So much has been sacrificed on that altar.

They shouldn’t be mainstream teachers’ problem - provision needs to be made for them elsewhere and this should be a higher spending priority than, say, new software or painting the corridors.

Nothing will get better until teachers are allowed to teach and motivated students are allowed to learn in peace and safety.

Just think about how that would work. Does a zero tolerance policy mean no reasonable adjustments for disability? Do you throw out those dreadful children who have major processing and sensory problems, who become so distressed in school if not properly supported that they may have meltdowns? And the ones with executive functioning difficulties who never have the right equipment with them? Those with sensory problems who can't tolerate the feel of the uniform, even though they can tolerate something very similar in a softer material? How about the ones with vocal tics who just won't keep quiet in class? What about those major criminals who never stand up when told to but instead doss around in wheelchairs?

As for zero tolerance - if you empower schools to throw out the inconvenient children with no redress, how does that feel for the child who has done nothing wrong but no-one could be bothered to investigate properly? Where do those children go? Are you going to leave them wholly uneducated?

Of course not!!!!
Cracking down on behaviour does not mean no provision
Schools can, and do, do both
This constant pendulum swinging wildly from one to the other is what has got us in this mess
What happened to centrist, moderate COMMON SENSE

@Merryoldgoat

No strict schools are in special measures. Schools in special measures all have behaviour that is dangerously and out of control.

Given that you clarified you’re talking about rules governing serious issues like racism and violence rather than petty uniform infractions, I think you are very reasonable to be glad.

Stupidity on the part of the school.

In, Fife all secondary uniforms can be bought in the local supermarket, apart from ties and blazers. Ties are normally issued free of charge.

Blazers are low cost, because of deals with manufacturers, but schools will provide if aware of financial difficulties.

Yeah sure keep on telling yourself that, but forget that almost every single one of them is in a nice middle class area with kids whose parents can afford tutors. Coincidence right?
the best education systems in Europe are in Scandinavia, go and find schools there that have uniforms.

All those schools must be in special measures , and the kids are throwing down on M&S/Waitrose vs ASDA/Tesco skirts.

According to some posters…

@WhenYouSayNothingAtAll

I have relatives in Scotland and secondary education is very poor in many places.

The Scottish Government have had to develop a new 'behaviour strategy' as behaviour is so poor in the majority of schools.

Many private schools, international and in Europe, have uniforms as they too see the benefit in encouraging standards of dress…

@HerNeighbourTotoro

Nope- there are a good number of secondaries in deprived areas that achieve great results.

What doesn't suit the anti-discipline crowd is that every one has strict rules, smart uniform and great behaviour.

That means that learning can take place rather than crowd control, and students can fulfil their potential.

Our youngster’s academy is excellent
Our eldest’s academy was good
The two LA schools need huge improvement

So our experience is different regarding academies. And they both had no nonsense Heads, which seems to create a brilliant environment for those who want to learn. Like our two and many, many others.

The rules aren’t draconian, the teachers are lovely but they expect a basic level of behaviour from the students at the very least.

If they want to buy M&S or Waitrose clothes, they’ll have to go to Edinburgh…No special measures here, though plenty of deprivation.

Yes, we have our share of behavioural problems, but my experience is that uniforms are beneficial, and Fife has never gone for silly uniform pricing.

I heard that an HT in the next county tried to bring in expensive purple blazers and the parents told here where to go. (Happened some years ago, in Kinross - a ‘nice’ area.)

They told her she could have black with purple braid.

In all seriousness, our depute used to suss out which supermarket had the best deals and tell the parents. Usually, it was Asda’s.

When I did supply after Covid, a particular school had allowed uniform to slip and it was reflected in behaviour and learning. I was also somewhat surprised at the attire of staff, but I’m an old fogey.

The problem is that sometimes the school introduces a rule later on, and then what. Homeschooling is not an option to everyone.
I am a teacher and found a lot of rules various schools I worked in ridiculous and not even supportive of teachers at all. Teachers leave because of a variety of reasons, enforcing crappy rules that do nothing but tick a box of some SLT who had it in their performance management is one of them.

@EnidSpyton Fantastic post! I agree with every word.

What if addressing the school doesn’t always work?

I met with the SENCO if Feb to discuss my daughters needs. Before entering the room, she hadn’t realised I was around the corner and was taking the piss out of my surname. She spent 45 mins discussing her and her families ski trips.

My daughter received a mentor this year, without any other support or LSP put in place.
Her behaviour escalated and was recently suspended.

The SENCO called me last week and explained my daughter’s needs were far more complex than they initially thought, as I had explained to them previously but was ignored.
She offered a variety of support for September, which I was very pleased about.
I explained that this should have happened in Feb but was unhappy that the meeting revolved around her families ski trip. I understand I probably should have kept my mouth shut, but I was hoping she would take on board that she shouldn’t ignore parents and that prevention is better than cure.
She shouted at me, said she is no longer offering any supper and she is also removing her mentor in sep as only children who receive 40k funding will get her help.

My daughter meets the threshold of an EHCP, except one, her grades are not below average.

The SENCO is also married to the Head teacher, so complaints go no where.

I do not make excuses for my daughter’s behaviour, I have a good relationship with 90% of the staff that work with her. I am always supportive and am fully aware teachers don’t go to work to be abused.
my daughter is not violent but struggles to engage and tends to not follow the lesson which can be disruptive to others. I do not make excuses for this. BUT she also has not received any support except for the mentor and they only support children who have EHCP’s.

England isn’t any better, is it?

I went to school in a different country. The best and most prestigious high school in the city (and I’m talking kids going on full scholarships to Cambridge/Oxford or American universities or going into medicine/law/engineering here) was incredibly lax on uniform. We had a blazer (that lived on the back of our chairs most of the time) , a tie (that was “stylishly “ undone if anyone actually bothered to bring it ) , white or blue shirts (which a lot of the time became tshirts) and blue or black trousers/skirts (which became jeans). Tbf we subconsciously ended up wearing a “uniform” in a way of jeans, tshirt and trainers.No one cared about sock colours, shoes , pe kits etc. Behaviour wasn’t even a small fraction of what I see here. Don’t get me wrong, we were dicks, but there were (mostly self imposed) limits.

You guys desperately cling to this idea of strict and smart school uniforms because you don’t know any different AND because fixing the actual structural and systemic issues is too difficult and takes too much effort and money.