To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike? Thread 2

[Locutus2000]

Rolling this over as people still seem to have something to say but no new poll.

Original post

AIBU to think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

Resident doctors need to wake up - they are not special or better and cannot hold the NHS to ransom. They are just greedier and think they deserve more!
Most are young and have likely not been seriously ill themselves- the BMA come across as lacking in insight, awareness and empathy

Again, please don’t conflate all resident doctors with the BMA, who are an entirely different beast. There are many humble, hardworking and well-liked residents I work with every year. There are dickheads in the profession of course, but most residents I meet are not greedy and do not think they are better than the rest of the team. Far from it.

I am starting to wonder if I am just lucky to have worked in teams where doctors, nurses, psychologists, OTs and HCAs etc get on, have mutual respect and enjoy each other’s company, and we laugh together despite all the stresses around us. Without that, the job would be intolerable.

The pay is bloody good compared to the postgraduates and postdocs researching deadly diseases. These people are at least equally gifted.

True, they do not hold lives in their hands. But police and firefighters do, at considerably greater risk to their own. Again, resident doctor pay is bloody good by comparison with those in positions of similar or greater positions of authority.

Wandering giraffe
You can not take the net pay of £50205 divide it by the 2496 hours worked per annum and say the hourly rate is £20.11

You get paid £90040 per annum for 48x52 hrs of work = 2496hrs per annum so the hourly rate is £36.07

If you want to do what you did, then please take out the 6 weeks of paid leave you get -which would make your hrly rate £40per hour.

GRoss pay of £90000 is a good salary by any stretch of the imagination

You also can’t conflate gross and take home pay, so guess we’re equal then! 😂

Yes but you’re not getting it. Of course every hard working individual deserves to be better paid but the money isn’t there. Wages have been stagnant in the UK for years because productivity is low. It’s not just doctors that are affected, it’s everyone.

The UK economy is in a very different place compared to 20 years ago. This is what Gen Z doctors don’t seem to grasp. They think they can just demand and get money that isn’t there.

Grow up - your pay is £90040 which you are paid to deliver 48 hrs per week on average.
Like the rest of the working world you pay tax, ni loans etc which gives you new salary.

No one calculates their hourly rate on their net not their gross - you are delusional

But would they want to do these jobs? Instead of studying medicine, offer a budding doctor the chance to get an HGV license and work 12 hour night shifts delivering food across the country - do you think they’d jump at the chance?

How about a stint in the army, putting their own life on the line?

Grow up? Seriously? I’ve not insulted anyone. Only one person here needs to take that advice. I was correcting the poster who said “we” took home £96k, which is obviously not the case.

I’d politely remind you that know nothing about me. My pay is far less than that. I take home £40k. I work ‘part time’ - only 38hrs paid a week, I won’t bother telling you how many actual hours I work in a week - as I spend the other hours of my week researching a deadly disease as a poor post doc (That was your post right?). I don’t get paid for that time as i put all the grant into the trial and want to improve outcomes in my field. But just another greedy useless doctor in your eyes I’m sure.

Have a nice evening.

Paramedics make life or death calls as well as nurses at times. Even a life guard has an important in where judgment saves lives so I don't think this is an argument for massive pay rises.

I am amazed that doctors don't know that all our clinical engineers who are responsible for the upkeep of CT/MRI/radiation machinery are often on band 6 band 7 roles (less than a doctor by a margin in terms of pay) on AFC yet your average resident doctors would be far less able to do their job without this equipment.

Maybe resident doctors have to look at the collective responsibility of the NH S and view themselves more part of a team whose ultimate objective is to improve the lives of patients? They are not going to elicit sympathy by saying I should have been an investment banker or look at salaries in the US......that doesn't wash.

I think doctors should have a sense of vocation and hopefully public service. That is the point of the NHS. Councils argue there may be salary sacrifice compared with the private sector and if you are really fed up you can join them. I think this country hold a the NHS dear and the principle of uniformly distributed aid free at the point of delivery has been the bedrock of a compassionate country for decades born out of the pain of the working class literally dying without care while private consultants remained out of their financial reach.

Please doctors consider the society you live in and be a bit more self aware and reasonable.

Exactly! Work in the private sector and see what pay rise you get when your employer is going through a bumpy period. Zero. Zilch. Inflation based sum total of nothing. 0%.

Well doctors, your employer is skint and you are asking for 29%!!!! Mindblowingly out of touch!

Yes, prescribing is nerve-wracking, that's why, as a band 6 Nurse who is also a Non-Medical Prescriber, whenever I prescribe anything I make sure I check the patient's relevant history. If anyone is prescribing without doing that basic part of our job they aren't fit to work.

I will reiterate - FY1s rarely, if ever, work in a vacuum. They are supervised. They do not make decisions on their own. Basic example from yesterday - had 2 FY2's querying whether they could sign Certificate A's, we as Clinical Nurse Specialists told them they could, they double checked with the Registrar who confirmed they could.

Good Medics always check. It's the ones who never ask for advice I worry about it.

I agree with this. No one is questioning whether drs are intelligent people - of course they are but the F1 and F2's need a lot of support. Not just from senior drs either, from experienced nurses. The pay reflects that and increases accordingly, as they become more independent in their practice. It also increases at a faster rate than other hcp's. Which is probably why the medics don't want to be on agenda for change.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4glxxxj3e0o

Theres a rather telling graph in this article showing how public support has eroded and a majority of the public do not support this strike (as reflected in the opinions on this thread).

Apparently they are planning a ‘breathing space’ and not doing any more very soon fortunately for patients and the rest of us NHS workers.

I suspect the “breathing space” will be lengthy. They anticipated the level of support they had last year.

Yes and the effect of this strike has been purely negative. Spacecowboys has just said ‘of course doctors are intelligent people’ but I have my doubts about those supposedly ‘leading’ these negotiations. They’ve decimated goodwill left right and centre and in doing so have lost much of the bargaining power that resident doctors had prior to the action. Woeful.

Being intelligent doesn’t make them knowledgeable. They are mainly Gen Zs who are barely out of short trousers. They may have learnt about medicine but they clearly understand nothing about economics.

Melissa Ryan is 45 so definitely not Gen Z.

The lack of intelligence isn’t to do with not understanding economics. It’s on show/ writ large in the wholesale lack of tactical thinking in terms of negotiations.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jul/30/wes-streeting-striking-doctors-will-lose-war-with-this-government

No surprises to the majority of posters on these threads then.

Apologies to those who've already read the comments on the BBC, in the Guardian etc.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bma-resident-doctor-industrial-action/bma-resident-doctor-industrial-action

I work in medical staffing in the NHS and so hope that this is resolved soon. I don't think Melissa Ryan is doing herself and the BMA any favours and I think she needs some media training.

I hope the BMA and government meet soon and come to a resolution.

Go Wes. That’s fighting talk..

Wanderinggiraffe - you are conflating many issues.

An ST6 doctor on 48 hrs per week in London earns £96000 per annum which equates to a approximately £40per hour salary.

You insist on talking about take home pay when most people talk of gross salaries. You are either on the standard nhs pay scale or doing a research post which is funded differently.

Please stop conflating pay scales. If you choose not to pay your self from your research grant then you have been poorly advised.

At no point have I called anyone greedy or useless. I do think the optics of someone on £96000 or an FY1 on £41000 needs looking at in the context of the finances of the nation and what other people earn. To ask for 28% demonstrates and arrogance and ignorance of fellow health care professionals. A Band 7 ward sister who manages multiple staff, makes high level decisions every day, protects many very early doctors, guides and teaches , can often order and take bloods scans etc, is on £48000 after 10 yrs experience. One is working independently and one is heavily supervised to say one is worth a 28% pay rise and the other 3.6% - is ignorant.

@stuffedpeppers what about the F1 salary within the context of a newly qualified PA earnning £47,000 pa?

You already know the answer will be 'but, but pay progression...'

Irrelevant. The salary is attached to the post, not the person.

The PP seems to be framing value in terms of relative contribution made and experience held at that specific point in time. Hence my question and that pay progression is irrelevant to that argument.