I am not sure I agree that Teachers have absolutely exhausting jobs - much more so than most jobs - as said by man on r4 this morning

[RevolutionHere]

i am not sure what my dh, former welder would make of this statement

this is an argument regarding long summer holidays,

Teachers are leaving anyway (with or without being told) , hence the recruitment and retention crisis.

Teachers are leaving anyway (with or without being told) , hence the recruitment and retention crisis.

Or “keep monitoring” / “keep an eye on it”.

I’m not sure which teacher said teaching was harder than being a social worker. It sounds like a very challenging role. Like teaching, I hope there are some perks day to day that keep you in the job.

Yes. “Please do refer back to us if you have any more concerns” “No, you’ll need to start the whole fucking process from the start, you can’t just re-raise the initial referral”

And you’ve not convinced anyone that this isn’t just your bog standard teacher bashing thread regardless of how you’ve tried to dress it up.

Having known nurses and being a teacher, I'd say the stress levels are comparable.

I think that the main difference in perception comes from the fact that nursing is visible. If you're in hospital, you see nurses rushing about, on their feet, working. People see the competing demands, they see the stress, people.imagine it to be a stressful job - seek and ye shall find.

That's all hidden in teaching because, when we come out at the end of the day to dismiss the children (which will be most people's 5 min experience of the day) and its all calm and smiles and the HT is doing their friendly rounds of the playground, you can't see what has gone on behind the scenes.

A lot of people think that a teacher's school day echoes a child's school day and it doesn't.

I can think of many things I have to do during the day that a nurse would never have to do. Just as you can imagine lots of things a nurse does that a teacher would never have to do. The main difference is I have empathy and understanding towards other professions and I accept it if someone tells me they're knackered. It's not a competition until someone (like this OP) tries to make it one.

Even with all the training in the world, seeing a child everyday who isn’t safe in their own home and seeing the impact this has on them (physical and mentally) is extremely challenging. Worse still, is saying goodbye at the end of term knowing what their holidays look like. As you say, teaching has its perks and it has its challenges. I hope your student was got the support they needed and you did too.

Exactly. I'm sure social work is very exhausting too. I don't believe anyone has said otherwise. The radio comment was that teaching is more exhausting than MOST jobs (which I believe is true), not every single job ever! In other words, teaching is one of the more exhausting job choices out there. I'm sure the same claim could legitimately be made about social work.

Yeh I love the holidays.

So... if the perk is so brilliant, snd worth the stress of teaching, why aren't you a teacher? What's stopping you?

Oh this in spades.

I guess you’re just referring to physical exhaustion OP?
Dont forget there’s mental exhaustion, emotional exhaustion etc. I bet a welder never lies awake at night worrying about his tools, the way a teacher does worrying about a child in their class who has been taken into care, etc etc.

As it happens both my SIL are teachers. One primary and one secondary and both have told me several times that no job is more exhausting or worthwhile than theirs. And ever single radio phone in I’ve ever heard on the subject ( a fair few when I driving round between families) backs this atitude up, as per the op’s post.

im very sure it is exhausting. I did a few taster days at a secondary school once and didn’t enjoy it especially. But it’s not more tiring than lots of other jobs, and it does come with perks such as 12 weeks off which are unheard of anywhere else. Teachers don’t have it worse than lots of other vocational type roles is my point. It’s bad for us all. But the perks of teaching do exist in a way they don’t for social workers and NHS nurses etc (though don’t get me started on NHS t and c compared to social care either).

I'd say the guy on radio 4 made the original comparison. I think teaching has difficult elements as do all professional roles. I'd be happy for an argument for higher pay. But the teachers are the hardest working tiredest people on earth trope is annoying. I think it's that constant comparison that annoys people.

Excellent point. These comments are in response to someone moaning about teaching 👏

And the OP claimed that she didn't start a thread about teaching; it was about careers in general 😅

1. Who on here said that teachers are THE 'hardest working tiredest people'? The radio claim was simply that teaching is ONE OF the most exhausting jobs.

1. Despite the excellent long holidays, we are in a recruitment and retention crisis. Even the holidays - which I agree are a phenomenal perk - aren't enough to make people actually want to be a teacher. Doesn't that tell you something about the nature of the job itself? (Oh and it's not the pay...)

Again, I know people who are social workers. Their job is incredibly tough and I considered going into itnat one point. If I leave teaching, it's one of the careers I'd consider retraining for.

That's not because I think it's easier or less stressful though but it would be using my exiating skills in a different way.

Again, unless you've done both jobs, I don't see how you can say either one is harder or more stressful than the other. They're difficult and stressful in different ways.

Eg SW's might have very high stress levels at particular points in the day but there is a time when you're sitting at a desk doing paperwork, writing reports, driving. That doesn't take away from the immediate stress of the situation you're leaving or entering either side of the paperwork and it doesn't mean the paperwork doesn't bring its own challenges. And we all know stress doesn't just dissipate once you've left an environment.

But equally, I would say that I don't ever get those more 'down' moments during the day. The paperwork and associated tasks that I do after school or over the weekend/in the holidays are the easiest part of my job. Yes, they're time consuming, hard work and stressful in their own way. Yes, I'm constantly chasing up other people for the information I need to competently the paperwork. I know that, a lot of the time, someone will check I've done the paperwork but it won't actually inform or change anything - I just need to do it. And, no, there aren't enough hours in the day.

But, again, why does it need to be a competition?

More than anything, if SW's are attacked or threatened in the course of their work, a new SW is allocated that case, or two SW's attend and its flagged up on the system (or at least, that used to be the case in my LA).

I don't have that. If I'm assaulted at work, I'm left alone in the classroom with the person who assaulted me and 29 other people who were distressed at witnessing the assault with little to no support - and have experienced that. In fact, I'm most likely to be blamed for it. Because its easier to blame the teachers than it is to put safeguards in place or deal with problem more robustly.

And when SS says, "Doesn't meet our threshold for intervention," or closes a case, we still have to do something.

But, like I say, it's not a competition...

Any job which involves dealing with vulnerable people is stressful. Sometimes because of the responsibility, sometimes because of a lack of funding, sometimes due to a lack of support, sometimes due to workload, sometimes due to conditions, and sometimes because vulnerable people are angry, violent and aggressive. Not all vulnerable people are quiet, meek and open to help and wiling to engage as I think many people imagine to be the case.

What actually tends to happen is…

A: Pfft, teaching is not that bad, they work 9-3, the wages are good for the hours AND they get all those holidays too!

Teachers: actually it is that bad, the hours are much longer , the wage isn’t bad for JUST teaching , but we also do x,y,z and sometimes it’s impossible and the holidays come with the job and we work some of them anyway.

Various posters: omg you’re such whiney, lazy , entitled , privileged (insert adjectives of choice here) “eegyts”! How dare you complain? My job is so much harder and I don’t get those holidays! What about meeeee?

But... no teacher has said that.

So the annoyance is unjustified.

Tbh, I'd argue for better working conditions, improved workload and funding for schools generally before I argued for better pay.

I think the current pay levels are OK tbh.

The thing is really though, there NEEDS to be public recognition of how shit the conditions are in teaching. Because until that is acknowledged, in government too, nothing will change.

And the change ISN'T necessary for teachers. We can and do leave.

Change is necessary for the children. They deserve teachers who absolutely have teaching as a vocation. Who are driven to be teachers. Who work 100% of the time for the benefit of their students.

If your teacher is on their knees with exhaustion, bogged down with pointless, useless administrative and other extra work, NONE of which benefits the students, those children aren't getting the best teaching.

Look, British teachers are on a premium elsewhere in the world. We are regarded as some of the best. We are recruited internationally. I've been head hunted at least 8 or 9 times. In one of my overseas jobs, my highest take home salary (with no outgoing bills - all covered by the school) was £9,000 in one month.

And yet, in the UK, teaching is a shit job. NOT the kids. The students are the bit worth doing.

Until government realise how bad teaching is here, nothing will change. And British kids will get the short end of the stick from exhausted, overworked teachers who REALLY just want to do their best for the 30 children sitting in front of them.

I'm happy to accept it's one of the hardest, my kids teachers are my favourite people in the world bar none. They are exceptional at their jobs.

Small point - it’s 5.6 weeks minimum (assuming U.K.).
If you want the holidays, train to be a teacher. There’s a shortage.

They chose a contract and type of work. So did you. Research shows teachers work more hours than average over the year, with median 50 hour weeks for the 39 school weeks. The holidays are of course a positive, especially in regards to expense for childcare, but they are working as much as you. I don’t think they need to be guilty about how difficult holidays might be for people who chose work with a different pattern.

You understand that there is no conflict between this and the original radio comment that teaching was one of the most exhausting jobs? Stress and exhaustion aren’t quite the same thing either.