I am not sure I agree that Teachers have absolutely exhausting jobs - much more so than most jobs - as said by man on r4 this morning

[RevolutionHere]

i am not sure what my dh, former welder would make of this statement

this is an argument regarding long summer holidays,

I do.
I'm not a teacher but once volunteered to be involved with something for a school and the absolute abuse I got from parents was staggering.
Apparently this is all too common for teachers. And that's before you get into their actual jobs. And the risk of abuse from students.

Except it's not a teacher, who has started the thread.

Well said.

The holidays are also there for the kids remember! (Have you seen a year 11 at the end of a long half term?? they are KNACKERED.)

Teaching is hard, its physically and mentally exhausting, and it tends to work in a "boom/bust" routine. The holidays are the "bust", terms are the "boom". There is not a single chance the pace and expectations of the job could be maintained without those holidays

I was a teacher, now I’m not. It’s not more exhausting than anything else.

I used to hear this a lot though. Almost always from people who had never done any other job but felt the need to defend themselves from the “teachers have it so easy as they only work half the year” narrative.

It doesn’t work, it just gets peoples backs up.

Fair enough we can agree to disagree.

Have we ever tested whether kids need time off or have just accepted a status quo?

Ideally you would be looking to finding a mutually acceptable solution that is achieveable. Something that has been said is the beahvioural issues, that are needing to be managed rather than the teaching. I would suggest a priority would be to devolve the educator role from the classroom management and childcare role- especially with classes above 15.

I then also would be looking at schools being run like other services; reduced services over public holidays i.e. Xmas/Easter but continue to run for the rest of the year. Then students/teachers can have their leave managed in a similar way and we also don't dump exams all at the same time of the year.

There are some really smart people working in education, they would be able to do this.

I have heard this alot from people who have had a range of careers. It might even be a right time of life thing.

No teacher says that - it's other posters, who do.

Paramedic, firefighter, social worker … to name a few. All have draining jobs dealing with risk and people’s lives. We repeatedly hear how awful teachers have it and very rarely from these other jobs. It’s not obvious how teaching is any worse than these jobs. Maybe it’s a matter of who gets sensationally highlighted in the media? Maybe their union is more vocal? I don’t know.

This has got to be satire surely?

Teaching is in a par with 12 hour shifts in a hospital making life or death decisions and dealing with horrific situations of injury and death?

I mean my DH is a trucker doing 12-14 hour shifts if stuck in traffic, has to stay constantly on alert as driving a massive vehicle which can cause serious devastation and having to avoid hitting suicidal imbeciles who think a car or a bike will come off better than an articulated lorry in a smash, then giving him abuse when called out on their stupidity. Can’t stop for a pee when he wants, no recognition for doing essential and sometimes dangerous work to ensure people have access to food and essential products which has caused him medical issues despite making an effort to keep himself extremely fit.

Even I think that’s incomparable to what doctors and nurses do.

I worked as a teacher in one of my incarnations and found it extremely stressful and since have never begrudged teachers their holidays. Welding doesn't sound that hard

I worked as a teacher in one of my incarnations and found it extremely stressful and since have never begrudged teachers their holidays. Welding doesn't sound that hard

The way I see it, everyone has a choice. Many teachers go into the profession because of the holidays. Likewise if people think teaching is a breeze they should train and enter the profession themselves.

I don’t think teaching is the only hard job out there or even the hardest and yes, the holidays are a massive plus. I don’t think they are particularly badly paid either when you pro rata their salary to the number of employees weeks they are actually paid.

Yeah, for really not great pay for most teachers.

I wouldn’t say my job is more exhausting than everyone else’s but it is exhausting.
parents are demanding, children are constant and need lots of help, I’ve got targets to meet. It’s just and stressful.

It’s a shame you don’t feel confident to say your job, it’s obviously not as stressful as ours otherwise you would have. If you are really interested then volunteer in a school.

I am glad we get the holidays as I couldn’t work at this level more than term time, I’m already run down.

@RevolutionHere

I’ve worked as a teacher and now am experiencing schools as a parent.

There is no upper limit as to how much work you can do as a teacher, and a teacher who is very dedicated can put in long hours. Or at least that is how it used to be. Teaching can be the absolute best job in the world - and uplifting rather than exhausting.

But - there has been a definite shift over the past 10 years, and particularly since Covid.

The most important skill a teacher needs - in my view - is empathy. We seem to be losing empathy as a society.

Early Years teaching has changed and become often chaotic, children are being labelled as having pathological conditions BEFORE addressing the support in place, the most highly qualified in schools are often in meetings, doing paperwork, IT related tasks etc whereas the ‘front line’ tasks are being expected to be handled by teaching assistants.

Patents are unhappy for a reason. Schools are excluding at a record high.
Yes some staff working in schools are exhausted. Some I see browsing in my local supermarket at 2pm on a school day not looking particularly exhausted. I’n fact the three members of staff I’ve seen on different occasions in the supermarket also tried to reject my child’s school placement…

Teaching is tough & tiring, lots of jobs are but many people only have experience of one job/industry.

The teachers I know the pay is good particularly when you include the.pension but conditions wise a lot depends on school & SLT culture.

Lol. I have just finished a weekend oncall. The fact you don’t believe me, confirms my opinion that you are unemployed and in no position to tell others their job isn’t hard enough. Pathetic really.

Last week of the academic year often brings this sort of injury at school. I've had similar other physical injuries throughout the year, and every year before.

I love my job, but the children need the holidays. I'm physically shattered. I've been sleeping for 10/11 hours a night for the past 3 weeks.

For me, the exhaustion comes from having to mentally be on the ball throughout the 7.30am-5.30pm working day (10-20min lunch and toilet stops if you can squeeze them in). Physically be on the ball, as you're on your feet most of the day. Emotionally take care of yourself, as you're managing the emotions of 30 children, their parents and all that life has for them including deaths, illnesses, job losses, abuse, mental health, family fallouts etc. And schools are now doing so much more in the way of social work than we ever had to.

And that's before you even consider the planning/assessments/reports/data/migf forms/SEN needs/G&T needs/working at needs/managing your team of staff.

Schools used to be primarily places of education. Now we're primarily places of care-but with higher than ever expectations of education. Children starting school in nappies (when no SEN needs) and not a clue how to even hold a book is a real thing.

So yes, it's exhausting. Most physically exhausting jobs are just physical. Most mentally exhausting jobs are just in the brain. Teaching has the perfect storm of needing to daily be on your feet at the coalface for 30 people AND their families 8.30am-3.30pm.

Then fitting in all the additional work that has to be done at some point in the rest of your day. Which is often 9pm onwards, as you've got your own family to love and support when you crash through the front door at 6pm.

It’s just a bit ignorant, because if you know, you know. Firstly teachers aren’t paid for our holidays. We are paid for our directed hours, when kids are there and staff meetings but our pay is then split into monthly portions so that we don’t go without pay during school holidays.

Secondly in this country, but not in most countries, the workload is insane, partly due to government expectations but mostly due to an insane inspection system that is unpredictable and unsustainable creating an atmosphere that has actually lead to head teachers killing themselves.

As a result teachers work hours and hours of unpaid overtime every week and with current underfunding reducing budgets and meaning less support staff the pressure is mounting. So while in other countries teaching may not be the most hard work you can do, in this country it is quite frankly a punishing job and ignorant waffle on the radio is insult to injury.

@Itssinkable

You sound utterly amazing, and my goodness I am so sorry to see your injury.
Are you Early Years?
I’ve worked in that area for a long time, and am just shocked by the way things have changed.

Yes teaching is exhausting, as are many, many, many other professions. It's not a competition.

My DIL is a secondary teacher. She is exhausted by the time the school holidays come around. I wouldn’t do her job for any salary. Not sure who’s worse, the entitled students or their entitled parents.
I look after my 4 year old granddaughter for two days a week while my DIL works, and I’m exhausted after that! Having to deal with 30 5-year old, 5 days a week would finish me off.
Teaching is a thankless task these days and anybody who complains about the ‘long holidays’ should try it before making judgement.

All teachers agree that the holidays are good. If they didn’t have the holidays, there would be far more than 40,000 leaving the profession every year.

It sounds like your DH finds his job tough but what has that got to do with teachers (a job that neither of you have done)? It isn’t a competition.