I am not sure I agree that Teachers have absolutely exhausting jobs - much more so than most jobs - as said by man on r4 this morning

[RevolutionHere]

i am not sure what my dh, former welder would make of this statement

this is an argument regarding long summer holidays,

I don’t recognise the lack of empathy you talk about since Covid, either at my school or my children’s school.

You’re clearly having issues with school staff due to your own experiences. You say parents have a right to be angry. I’m sure in some cases, like all situations, they do. But teachers are doing their best and there has been a real shift in the last 10/15 years with parents being reluctant to work with schools about their children’s behaviour, either because they can’t be bothered or because they don’t believe what we’re seeing. I have empathy but it’s very hard when parents aren’t working with us.

Don't really understand why the OP is getting piled on here? She's not disrespecting teachers, just quoting something that was said on the radio. I'm sure teaching now, is draining and exhausting, more so than in the past for numerous reasons already mentioned, and I wouldn't want to do it. Full respect to those who can handle a class of children, all day, every day and manage all the associated issues, including the parents! However, other jobs are exhausting too. Some mentally, some physically and some both, and often for much less money.

A family member was a support worker in a mental health hospital for over 3 years. In that time she was sexually assaulted several times. Physically assaulted numerous times, some of which required a trip to a&e. Had to cope with literally unbelievable staff shortages, and agency staff incompetence. Dealt with suicides and various self harm incidents in patients. All this for very little money. She eventually reported them to the CQC and resigned.

Yes teaching is very tough. More so than any single other job? No. But it's not a race to the bottom

It's possible to have quite an easy time as a teacher if you're not good at your job. If you skate by on the bare minimum, show kids plenty of videos, only teach to the test and don't bother trying to instill an actual interest in your subject, then it's almost relaxing.

The better you are as a teacher and the more you connect with the kids, however, the more exhausting it becomes.

For example, a bad teacher will never have a student share that their dad is sexually abusing them. A good teacher will.

A bad teacher will never have students coming to them for help, won't listen to parent concerns, won't properly prep for classes, won't try to differentiate to meet varying learning needs, won't adapt their teaching styles for SEN. They're simply bad at their jobs and their students are the ones who pay the price.

I think one of the differences between welding and teaching is that the welder probably isn’t thinking about their work in the evenings or the weekends

If he said 'most' then the statement recognises some other jobs are more exhausting. Teaching is more exhausting than most though so sounds about right. The break is important because the day to day actually being in the classroom is only one part of teaching, 6 weeks (well less as need to use some of it to prep for next school year) away from having to plan, assess and all of the other paperwork outside of school hours is bliss.

Ive been a teacher and a nurse, the shifts nursing were often more physically and mentally exhausting, but the entire 'package' of expectations as a teacher was more relentless. Its not a competition, but i think its quite narrow minded to view exhaustion as purely physical, or not recognise the work that goes on once a lot have clocked off.

I have done 15 years and I’ve quit now to do a different job. The holidays were not worth it and I’d rather do something else. Teaching is no longer a long term career. The stress, exhaustion, pressure and crisis management was just awful and ruining my health.

The stress, exhaustion, pressure and crisis management was just awful and ruining my health

I was a teacher for 7 years and agree with this.

Can you not appreciate OP that there are other forms of exhaustion besides physical labour?

This is correct, and despite being a maths teacher with previous experience in managing payroll, I still didn’t quite “get it” until my school paid me for an hour’s additional teaching once, and I saw what my hourly rate actually was. If this was multiplied by my weekly contracted hours and then by 52 weeks (ie including all holidays) I would be on about £9k more than I actually am.

Oh and as someone who career changed at 40, teaching is definitely in a league of its own for exhaustion. An average day in teaching is as challenging as the most hectic day in my previous roles. If you haven’t ever done it, don’t embarrass yourself by making assumptions.

Comparing jobs is never helpful. Because they are so many variables.

Even in my job, how hard I have found it has varied over the years. Currently as a consultant, I am on my feet much less. But the responsibility is crushing at times. Worrying about my decisions and will patients recover or deteriorate or worse. For example, going to a coroner’s inquest and being quizzed for several days about the medical care a patient has received from me and the team: sometimes a patient I have never seen, is the most stressful experience I have had. It is a different kind of exhaustion to when I was a house officer in the 90s working 56 hour shifts and having little support. I remember aching all over and developing cystitis because I did not have time to go to the toilet. So even within one job there can be variables.

And then being a doctor in one trust can be a different level of stress and exhaustion to working in a different NHS trust. I am sure the same is for teachers and every other role too: the employer makes a difference.

Some people in a position better to compare are probably people who have done teaching and other jobs. But then again the other variables still apply, and it will also depend on your employer and location, deprivation factors, SLT, parent body etc.

And then it also depends on personal factors. So whilst I am pretty good at my job as a hospital doctor, I suffer from migraines. So being a welder, the environment of heat, noise and light would be very difficult physically for me. So our personal vulnerabilities play a part too.

I think it would be best if there was some mutual respect and understanding of everybody’s job. It’s a bit arrogant to comment on somebody’s work life when you have never experienced it exactly
yourself. Best to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than simmer with resentment, envy or contempt.

I wish I could stop thinking about my job at weekends and in the evenings. It’s a killer! One thing I have managed to do is limit myself and not check my emails on a Saturday or after 2000 in the week. We have to put steps in to protect ourselves or we would go mad! That goes for any role where the responsibilities are significant of course.

Depending on the sector welding is not that hard a job. There can be lots of hanging around waiting with a labourer/ mate to set up the job for you and do the menial tasks.
The work you do gets inspected for quality and if it fails you need to redo it with some companies firing you if you have too many failed welds.
All jobs have highs and lows, if you’re not happy change. Teachers make a huge difference to lives and so do welders, doctors and bricklayers.
From what I have seen here the main issue is teachers think they are having a hard deal.

Many jobs are different for all sorts of reasons.

I am self employed- that means I have to reply to emails on weekends and on holidays abroad.

My DDis a nurse and worked in paediatric intensive care- working 13 hour shifts, cradling and singing softly to babies as they passed and dealing with grieving parents.

Well, thanks for letting us know.

So many people are jealous of the long holidays and feel the need to have a go, my stock answer is that there’s a shortage at the moment so if they’re that jealous they can retrain and give it a try themselves!!

That said, I actually don’t think teachers have the hardest job, I think “hard” is subjective and depends on your particular skills set. I have siblings who are an accountant and a chef, I teach teens with challenging behaviour. We all think each other’s job sounds like a nightmare 😆

If teaching was just imparting information I would agree. However having seen the huge amount of pastoral support that has to be given in parallel, the high volume of paperwork demanded and the exacting framework of guidance and requirements it must all be done inside, I'm going to say that no one else does such a hard job. Except maybe pre school workers. It's a knife edge balancing of things that if ignored would seriously harm children forever. And plus you often have to deal with already harmed children. Never mind that you could have gone into a different career like marketing and made more money on fewer hours. No, I do not think that teachers deserve anything less than praise and support. They can have their six weeks holiday as far as I am concerned.

@1AngelicFruitCake

I think something has absolutely gone in the wrong direction because there is certainly more of a clash between teachers and parents now in schools. I now also work in a different capacity where educating children seems more natural (due to the set up), where parents are v much welcomed and inclusion is possible by working directly with the parent. All adults are present while the educating part happens/children are present. It’s magical and the children are so happy and thriving.

This is more how I remember teaching being 20 years ago. It was more magical. Something has shifted - particularly with inclusion - and it’s not going in the right direction. I don’t think it’s purely the parents fault, I don’t think it’s purely the fault of schools. But there definitely needs to be a change.

I'm going to say that no one else does such a hard job.

I don’t think such black and white blanket statements are helpful really. It’s all much more complex than that, as I said in my post just now.

Maybe its because people don't constantly start ridiculously goody posts about these professions, so they dont feel they have to defend themselves.
Many, many roles are hard, and harder than teaching. Very, very few are so critiqued publicly.
If this were a post about social workers missing red flags in a case, social workers would be out in droves defending their role and its pressures.
But the (rather ignorant) OP started a post thinly bashing teachers so, yet again, they feel compelled to defend themselves (disclaimer...you couldn't pay me enough, nor give me enough leave, to teach)

And I bet you get paid a heck of a lot more than a classroom teacher. If you have a decent degree, you can spend a year training to be a teacher . You will have to pay for it, but then as you believe it will be less stressful, it will be worth the sacrifice. Just to mention though your salary will be £31,600.

These debates come around every year. Teachers are not helped by coming on and saying they have a harder job than anyone else and making it a competition - there are a lot of jobs that are difficult and stressful with longer working hours than contracts suggest. Lots of nhs workers for example will be dealing with very challenging working conditions and jobs without the holidays or the end of year gifts. One teacher this year at our primary got over £300 of vouchers. No one else in the public sector charity sector would be able to accept that sort of gift.

But… at the same time we have a teacher shortage, their working conditions are arguably poorer and the kids more challenging. There is a reality that certain subjects are already difficult to recruit to and teachers should probably be paid more. You can see why there would be resistance to cutting holidays and it would be perfectly fair for teachers to be paid more for working more if that sort of change ever happens.

I’m sure there are jobs that are equally exhausting day to day. Do those jobs mean you have to work evenings and weekends to keep on top of planning, marking, resource making and report writing though? That’s what makes teaching one of the most exhausting jobs in my opinion, it’s relentless.

If you work in physically demanding jobs you aren’t still working at that level in your own time.

i did not do any teacher bashing in my posts, never once did i say teachers did not deserve holidays.
seems to be a strange interpretation of my posts. posters are so busy to leap to the defence - quite eye opening, even someone who calls themselves a hospital consultant putting me down and saying i must be unemployed, what an eye opener that was and a worry for the nhs

Lol. The consultant's posts were far more articulate than yours. No worries about the NHS here.
Meanwhile, you start a post that, be honest, WAS intended to bash, and refused to engage when fairly asked what your job is to be able to understand the motivation of your post.
You have a good day (and find the key to capitilaise the start of your sentences, please).

OP have you ever hosted a birthday party or play date for 30 children?

How would you feel about hosting 5 of these, back to back, every day, with the added responsibilities of safeguarding those childrenin the absence of their parents, imparting knowledge at different levels, managing any additional adults in the room although often now there arent any due to funding, being observed by SLT, dealing with parents, assessing children's progress and adapting lessons in the moment, resourcing all those lessons, running a lunchtime club, marking the work and adapting the lessons in light of this, then attending meetings and taking your laptop home to plan tomorrow's lessons?

I'm a primary teacher and whilst I can't, and don't, comment on how tiring other jobs are, every teacher I know is shattered. We are not lazy. We work hours and hours of unpaid overtime each week. My record is a 72 hour week. Usually it's 50 hours. It's an amazing job but it's hard.

i did not do any teacher bashing
until i was faced with the barrage of insults from those calling themselves teachers