I am not sure I agree that Teachers have absolutely exhausting jobs - much more so than most jobs - as said by man on r4 this morning

[RevolutionHere]

i am not sure what my dh, former welder would make of this statement

this is an argument regarding long summer holidays,

Teacher pensions don't work in the same way as your pension. Those employer contributions are paying for current teacher pensions, the ones who got the great final salary deal. They're not paying into a pot for my future pension.

My teacher pension will be paid for in the future by future teacher contributions. If we have any teachers left by then. Not sure how that will work.

I work in a school but am not a teacher, do they not get the statutory holiday allowance though? I’m paid for 38 weeks plus 6.48 (due to length of service) weeks holiday pay.

I don’t get why people bash teacher’s holiday entitlement. Teachers don’t need to justify their holiday entitlement. It’s not like they’ve campaigned for it. It’s just how it is.

Anyone who also wants the entitlement could train and become a teacher. Heaven knows the country could do with more!

Hard disagree OP, teaching is extremely stressful and exhausting and the hours are far longer than most people realise, particularly for the very low pay, not sure why anyone would begrudge them the summer holidays or start a post which is essentially just an excuse to bash them. I worked in teaching previously and I now work in finance, working 60 hour weeks, but I can tell you that teaching was more exhausting than my current job. Good teachers are worth their weight in gold and we need more of them.

Why wouldn’t another school employ you? There is such a massive recruitment crisis they’d employ any warm body with a teaching qualification, right? I would’ve expected it’s easy as hell to move around

Obviously said by a non-teacher. I am not a teacher and I think their job is enormous! I wouldn't want it and am not surprised so many leave the profession. It would kill me - and I did a demanding job which I loved.

That’s part of the problem isn’t it? Too many are quitting!

I was a teacher in a Pupil referal unit 10 years. In that time I had my nose broken, spat on multiple times, finger broken, pushed down stairs, sworn at, threatened, had my car tyres slashed, bitten multiple times, had to have my spleen x Ray after being kicked.

That was on top of planning, having lessons watched and criticised constantly, having my day changed lots so having to plan different lessons we'll into the night at short notice to then be given a different job the next day so it was all wasted.

I still work in schools but in a different capacity and would not go back to teaching for all the money in the world.

It is a knackering, demoralising, thankless job.
No matter how good you are, someone will always be pissed off at you.

The holidays are nice but don't make up for working 7am to 11pm most days and having to go in for half the holidays anyway to change boards, lesson plan, order and sort out resources etc

The difference is you get your salaried rate as your holiday pay, whereas if we broke down the amount of money we get ‘paid’ for the holidays our salary would be significantly less than minimum wage.

I’m I’m my fifties. I earn more than my kids who have gone into teaching and about 20% less than my partner (in teaching) who is the same age as me.

I will retire with about 80% less employer pension than my partner, and will have to work for 7 - 10 years more to even get that.

Steel workers are comparatively well paid for their qualifications but perhaps not enough for risk level.
I know im married to one.
Teachers need the 6 week break they're exhausted.
Ive done other jobs. Teaching is the hardest.

It’s an interesting time to post - just before the 6 weeks summer break.

If it was easy then there would not be a retention crisis. People know the salary & apply knowing what they will earn. So fur people leaving aren’t going because of the money.

Lots of customer facing jobs must be exhausting. Hairdressing, osteopath, police officer, social worker spring to mind.

I think manual labour is exhausting especially if it’s in the heat & new retirement age of 67 will be a struggle. OP it’s not a race to the bottom. We all have things which make our jobs difficult.

In addition to the retention crisis you have many parents who can’t cope with the 6 weeks summer break. That’s with 2-3 kids (on average). Imagine having 30 all day every day Mon-Fri & being judged on how well you deliver your lessons.

I think it also depends on the timetable. A mix of 6th form, some nice top sets is different from say a reception class teacher. That would be far more exhausting.

Any experienced teacher is expensive, hence why some schools have a conveyor belt of cheap ECT’s. School budgets are cut to the bone and cheaper staff are more likely to be hired first.
So no, it is not easy to move around, especially if you’re on UPS

I don’t understand.

A teacher’s salary is more than minimum wage.

It’s mentally exhausting and also carries a lot of stress due to having an important role in kids’ lives. It’s physically fairly demanding too and doesn’t have much flexibility, eg can’t usually wfh, compressed hours etc.

I’m not a school teacher but have several friends who are, am a university teacher myself and a lot of colleagues are ex teachers.

I don’t think anyone can say it’s the most exhausting job but it’s certainly very demanding.

Everyone says that teachers have a difficult job. That’s why they leave so often.

I’m sick of some of the stupid threads on Mumsnet at the moment. Criticising everyone who has a difficult time in any way, doctors, disabled people, teachers, starving Palestinians. Some people are just shitty minded.

'Light blue touch paper and ...'
Have you Nothing Better To Do?

I don’t like egg sandwiches. But thanks

Total lack of reading comprehension again on this thread.

@RevolutionHere I agree, there are many more jobs that are more exhausting than being a teacher but we all know being a teacher is also tiring.

So is there a recruitment and retention crisis or do they in fact not want to recruit or retain you, which case there is an excess of teachers available?

Every teacher I’ve ever met.

There's physical exhaustion (I have an outdoorsy manual job albeit not as hard graft as welding) and then there's the exhaustion that comes from stress, talking and dealing with adults and kids face to face all day and the unexpected things and problem solving that happen and must be dealt with, the work load of modern classrooms where primary school age children are having anxiety and panic attacks, teens are going through alot, etc. Emotional exhaustion is common in teaching, then the interpersonal relationships can be fraught also, pressure from above.

I know lots of teachers and spent 6 months woeking in a school when considering the profession in my 20s, and I'd take my manual job any day, my spade doesn't talk back to me.

Of course OP. I'm not sure why teaching is seen as one The Hardest Jobs. Police officers, social workers, prison officers, paramedics are all overworked, difficult public sector jobs where arguably you will see even more antisocial, challenging and physically dangerous people. These kinds of roles also experience similar issues with senior leadership, high expectations - low rewards, unpaid overtime etc. Teaching isn't the worst on that kind of list.

Then you have physically arduous and dangerous jobs, such as construction, offshore work, logging etc where you risk injury and break your body long term and often aren't well respected for your role.

Then you have just low paid shitty jobs where you're on your feet all day, managed by someone who is managing you most likely just because they stuck around long enough, not because of skill, where you're paid a pittance and no one respects your work.

If there was a list of worst jobs, teaching simply wouldn't be up there in terms of physical danger, psychological danger, pay, lack of respect (in terms of how society views the role) etc compared to many many many other roles.

I know people won't like this but I think there's a couple of possible reasons why there's such a propaganda campaign about How Awful it is. Largely in part to do with the people who end up in teaching. Firstly, some are people who did degrees without a clear vocational route, graduated, then didn't know what to do so went and did a PGCE or something. People who started there aren't passionate educators and as far as I can tell resent the hard work and lack of praise that teaching receives. You can seen it in the lack of pedagogy and understanding of child development and learning. It's not even slightly a passion.

Then I think there's some who did expect it to be 'cushy' - short days, lots of holidays etc. Obviously it's actually a full time public sector person facing role. It was never going to be straightforward. I think those are the ones who go on loudest about how they actually work 8 - 5, not 9 - 3, and sometimes have to go in during the holidays and start a bit before term. You can spot these people because they point it out as though they are very hard done by, when obviously all of us who work full time recognise that kind of length of day.

It just tickles me as there aren't forums full of social workers bemoaning how they wrote up their assessment in the evening, got cross examined in court all morning and then spent their afternoon into the evening managing an emergency DV situation and personally getting a mother to a refuge with her kids and stuff and got home at 10.30pm - no overtime paid. No, it's teachers saying they did some marking at home and parents evening went on a bit. There is something different about those who teach that they appear unable to hear what they sound like. That's my theory.

@RevolutionHere You’ve clearly not got a lot of job experience, and nor has your sainted husband. I’ve done a range of jobs, across the spectrum. Teaching was physically the hardest, and I’m pretty fit. Has your husband been a teacher?

As for saying some of the posters have put you off teaching - you wouldn’t cut it in the profession.

The trouble with teaching is that it is all consuming. The expectations are incredibly high and it takes over your life. More and more and more is added. Everyone goes on about holidays but teachers aren't paid for the extra time, the pay is just spread out accordingly.