I am not sure I agree that Teachers have absolutely exhausting jobs - much more so than most jobs - as said by man on r4 this morning

[RevolutionHere]

i am not sure what my dh, former welder would make of this statement

this is an argument regarding long summer holidays,

I was also baffled by this comment that nobody is talking about doing this; if you’ve read a newspaper recently they very much are!

Everyone thinks their job is harder than everyone else. I know I do. I work 60 hours a week and my definition of success is just pissing off the right people, not the wrong people.

If teaching is such an easy job with so many perks then why is it so hard to recruit teachers, and more importantly RETAIN them. I think three years is about the average in many areas.

Have a look around your kids secondary school, how many teachers over 45 are there, why aren’t they in school, passing on their acquired wisdom and experience ? Are your childrens teachers teaching the subjects they have been trained to teach or staying one lesson ahead of the children? Has your school had to remove subjects from the curriculum because they can’t recruit staff?

Then think about the teachers your children have had since reception, how many are still at the school? When your children reach year six how many of the teachers will remember them as they have progressed through the school?

Wasn't that because they also had their own jobs to do? I imagine a teacher would also find it tough if, as well as trying to teach their class, they were also expected to be on Zoom calls as a solicitor or social worker as well and they hadn't been trained for it.

Only one in four schools in this country have a physics teacher.

Why do we think that might be?

My job is also not relevant but I can share it. I’m a full-time NHS hospital consultant. There you go, it was not that hard. Your turn. What job do you do?

I think it probably depends on when you started teaching. Like lots of public sector pensions inc nurses etc it used to be a much better pension than it is now. Anyone joining the scheme after a certain date won’t be able to retire mid 50s.

I’m not a teacher but do work in a school.

@MasterBeth "They do get really long holidays, though."
For which they are not paid.

Teachers moan more than any other profession. I don't doubt at all that it's a hard job. But so are many other jobs. People generally just get on with it, or quit and find another line of work if they hate it that much.

@RevolutionHereI would agree that teaching is not as physically exhausting as welding. However, is welding also emotionally and mentally exhausting? It’s the combination of all three elements that lead to it being all consuming and utterly draining.

When I was pregnant I used to work 12 - 19 hour shifts as a GM at a busy restaurant, on my feet all day.
I am now a teacher, not in the UK anymore and I get July - mid August off…
Sometimes the mental and emotional exhaustion of teaching is so bad I’d rather do a 19 hour shift at 38 weeks pregnant.

Mind you I love my job, but I 100% don’t do it for the love of kids but for the money.

I also lasted 4 years. Once I started lying in bed in the morning sobbing because I didn't want to get up, I knew it was time to quit (ended up on antidepressants) I went back to my previous profession on more than double my teaching salary.

Teaching is vile...

That’s exactly what is happening hence the recruitment and retention crisis

There are a lot of exhausting jobs, especially working with needy people.
I think working in a school, its a very particular type of bullshit youre dealing with, and often very unsupportive environments.

Teaching employers contribute a fixed rate of 28.6% of the teacher's pensionable earnings.

My private sector employer contributes the statutory 3% of my earnings.

A teacher’s pension is still a great pension.

Teachers get the normal amount of paid holiday a year - 4 weeks. They are paid for only the 1264 hours of their contract + directed time (thats preparation, marking, parents' evenings, staff meeting, training, detentions etc.) not for the holidays (except statutory 4 weeks)
I am sure welding is hard work. As hard as being a teacher, I would think. But teachers are day in day out working with small people in classes of 30 or so, teaching them, disciplining them, preparing lessons for them etc. And they go home and do more work. Some teachers work an 80 hour week with marking and preparation. And they have to cope with appalling behaviour from a large and growing number of children who have either not been socialised (or potty trained by reception - schools should turn such children away IMO) or do not have any respect for authority because we have spent the last 60 years saying that authority of any kind is bad and that obeying rules is unnecessary. A day can be Hell on earth, really. You might prefer to be a welder - the hours are set, the job is finite, compared to hours that are as long as a piece of string and a set of tasks that never end. Welders are probably paid better.
Don't be so goady.

Most jobs now are utterly miserable.
The working environment is a very harsh cold place to work in.
I only work part time and that is enough.
The whole of the school system is broken, teachers don't want to be there, neither do the pupils, schools are no longer fit for purpose especially secondary schools.

Do you earn more?

Lots of jobs are tiring, especially frontline government paid ones, ie NHS, police, fire brigade, teachers. Of course being in a high pressured office job is as well but there are some differences.

As a teacher I can confirm a typical day is indeed exhausting, more so since academy takeover, being micromanaged, not having your own classroom, extra duties.

So the typical day, well for me...

Get up 6am am to sort out own kids and self, drop off at nursery, breakfast clubs to be en route to work at 7.30am. Arrive 8am, fob way through all the corridors to arrive in first classroom ready for registration and make sure trolley is packed for first 2 lessons.

In come form, all full of own dramas, sorting out dinner preferences, registration, then redo for those who arrive late, uniform and equipment check, PowerPoint of daily info.

Then off they go, wheel trolley to other side of school to try to be able to hand out bell tasks and greet first class, then frantically login to get up ppt and freeze starter task while finding register.

Breathe, discuss bell tasks and starter activities, to stick into books, handing out gluesticks from trolley as unfortunately not enough in every room and basically no trust of them being flicked on the ceiling and at each other.

Teach, meanwhile addressing the toilet requests, time out passes, those who weren't here last lesson, the squabbling, chewing, phone beeps, one who is upset and crying, another who is being disruptive, another who refuses, several who dont have pens, plus so much more.

Rinse and repeat 5 times, while duty at break taking trolley, standing at your designated point, sipping from pre preprepared coffee flask, quick wee on way, same for next lesson.

Lunch mtg, detentions and extra tuition all in the same classroom while scoffing a home made warm sarnie and again flask coffee. Quick look at phone to see if any emergencies, see missed calls from DC's schools, eek ring back, takes time, please ring DH.

End of day, pack trolley full of books (all A3 size) to take home to mark and whatever commitment there is after school; meeting, extra class, mtg with parent, training, parents' evening, following up praise and consequences etc.

Stay and catch up with own P and P then drive home, picking up own DC to prepare dinner, help with hw, bath, then get on to the marking. 30 books, all of which have to have detailed feedback, stamps and points to improve in a different coloured pen and bugger you can't find the pink one!!!

Meanwhile, depending on your school, you can experience lots of disengagement, very poor behaviour, which in itself is draining.

Finally all marked, to be told the next day your feedback wasn't detailed enough and you need to access extra training.

So yeah teaching is actually pretty exhausting as it's full on, intense, high expectations from above but often cba attitude from students.

Of course every day isn't like this, some days you're not on duty and have a toilet break and a coffee leisurely within 10 mins and a free lunchtime, bliss!

Don’t forget as well that there are very few perks to the job other than the holidays! Some of you may get bonuses or work related prizes. Some of you may be able to get cheaper term-time holidays.
My council doesn’t even provide WiFi, other than on my school computer. So if I need to use my phone, it’s all my own data. How many workplaces these days don’t have WiFi?! I’ve lost count of how much I’ve spent and how much I’ve fundraised to make the school experience as positive as it can possibly be for my pupils (my school is in an area of multiple deprivation). My breaks are unpaid.
It’s pretty archaic, really!

Is that because every 6 weeks people tell them to shut up and stop complaining? Also, sorry to break it to you but they are leaving - 50% of new teachers leave in the first 5 years. There’s a recruitment crisis and a retention crisis and assuming we’re all on here because we’re mums, that should worry all of us.

No comparison, after 8 hours as a waitress your work is over, you don't need to think about the cups you left behind, or plan for tomorrow.

The general public is easier than DC, general public don't have their parents complaining, it is easier to leave a minium wage job and find another, than leave a teaching role, expecting another school to employ you, a waitress with experience will find work.

The mental load is not comparable.

A thread of goady answers?

She might be more senior or qualified than a teacher though so that’s hardly relevant.

I’ve asked this question a couple of times on this thread, but no-one has offered a reply to this point:

What practical difference to you does it make to say you don’t get paid over the holidays?

You get an agreed annual salary. You get 12 equal salary payments. What does it mean to say “you don’t get paid for the holidays”?