To wonder what goes through the minds of people who say whatever they want?

[JadeyLauraPie]

Been for a family breakfast today with DH's family. His grandmother means we'll but days whatever she wants. If you've put on an ounce of weight ( or lost it in fairness ) she will want to discuss it at the table with everyone there...if you've decorated your house and it isn't to her taste, she won't be rude but she will see no harm in saying 'I wouldn't have picked that' when nobody asked & she also wanted to have an in depth discussion about why my poor mum is an anxious flyer, when it has nothing to do with her at all and no affect whatsoever on her life. She is by no means unkind but just so unbelievably tactless with conversations. It used to disappoint me a lot years ago as DH's mum would sit there listening and say nothing to stop her, but time has passed now and I no longer see it as her job really as I know DH's grandmother more and I'm part of the family. It's a weird one, I like seeing her but without fail every time I do I'm often offended by something or find myself being judged or questioned and everyone says its just her personality- she says whatever she wants. Im truly curious as I am very sensetive and completely the other way, if you are someone who is like DH's grandmother and you're quite opinionated, how come? Are you aware of it and do you mean to offend sometimes? How did you get so brave lol?

Cognitive decline and estrogen decline means your filter disappears ..it starts with giving less of a shit in menopause to openly telling strangers their clothes look awful as old age take hold...save up all the things you wish you could say now..in 40 years you can say them with impunity

100% agree with this- this is how my next door neighbour is,coupled with being incredibly nosey. I now don’t share anything with her after her discussing my dad’s unexpected death with half of our street. I hate people who behave like this,just shows bad manners & not much going on upstairs imo.

People like this are best responded to with what is called An Asymmetric Escalation.

She starts with your fat bum, you take it cheerfully and comment on her wattle neck.

She mentions your Mum, you jump in with “before we talk about my mothers mental health, let’s talk about your’s, my mum isn’t here and you are. Do you think you’ll get a diagnosis for , you know, the big gob.”

She doesn’t like the house “well lucky you! You don’t have to live in it, you don’t even have to visit if you’re going to be rude.” Or “That’s OK, I’d planned to leave it to the kids, but I have you down to receive my diaries with all my secret thoughts”

Honestly, just lean into being twice as rude, but with a chuckle, and a smile on your face.

It sounds like you don't need to wonder what goes through her mind as it just comes out of there verbally.

I have met many people who are like the person OP describes. Not one of them was equally happy to be on the receiving end of this kind of 'honesty'

I think elderly people feel like they’ve earned the right to say what they want and don’t care if it offends. Younger people who do it are generally gobshites. I know at least two “I tell it as it is” characters and they are both loud, deeply irritating and not very bright.

There is some pretty good evidence that cognitive empathy (the ability to try and put yourself in someone else's place and imagine how they feel) declines in old age, so it may not be that older people in all cases are consciously deciding they don't have to be polite anymore, they may genuinely struggle to know that the other person will find it hurtful.

Meant to include this link in that post: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6580149/

This is SUCH a good insight- to expand on my 'not unkind' comment she really, really isn't unkind as much as I've portrayed her a bit badly with her rudeness but my GOD she is rude. I sometimes notice her projecting her own insecurities and wonder if speaking outwardly with no filter is her way of blurting out what she's worried about. For example I know when she was very judgemental of SIL leaving work to look after the children for a few years til school ( nursery fees meant her staying at work was pointless ), she went on a big tangent about how she would lose her independence, struggle to get work again, let herself go etc. MIL told me after that she was literally describing herself as a SAHM when she was younger, but obviously I didn't know her then. It's very odd indeed & although unintended I can never fully relax around her.

I quite like brutal honesty in people!

However, understandably only when asked for it. With my friends & family if I’m asked for an opinion on something I’d only ever give an honest one and I’d expect the same from others.

From decor to wedding dress shopping! What’s the point of saying oh it’s lovely if someone is trying on a hideous wedding dress that makes them look awful?

We have just decorated all the spare rooms now that our youngest has finally moved out & when I sent sample ideas to a friend they were ruthless!

Some idiot at work always used to say “I speak my mind”. Well we don’t always want to hear what’s on your mind, thanks.

I do value honesty - when I ask for it, but not so keen on it randomly being offered!
'You do realise you are speaking you every thought out loud, right?' might shut her up.

I work with someone like this. I really think that they can't help it as they almost always recoil in horror when they realise what they've said.

Yes, they take great pride in ‘being real’ and speaking their mind, but think very little of the other persons feelings.

I know a few people like this. Funnily enough, if you do the same as them, they often take great offence!

This is interesting! And I wonder what the reasons are.
Is it the thing of northerners talking to strangers, calling people 'love' etc that means people think Londoners are cold and rude?
There's the thing of northerners being more direct, which can be perceived as rude, but southern not saying what you mean can have its own disadvantages.

I think Londoners, who of course include many people not from the UK, as with any big city, can be unfriendly (cautious) and abrupt, in a rush. Because of the ebb and flow you don’t get to know people in the local shop or doctor’s for example (including the doctor - lucky if you see the same one from one month to the next).

My limited experience of Yorkshire people is that yes, they are more friendly and chatty, but what they call straight talking I would call rude. I stopped seeing much of a friend who moved up north and married a Yorkshireman because I found him so rude and inhospitable. But I may be extrapolating that unfairly - though perhaps not if that poll was anything to go by!

@Ddakji I'd agree with that. I'd also say Londoners are mostly happy to stop and give directions etc if you ask. We're not all miserable, but we probably aren't looking to make temporary friends on the bus. Sometimes that's a shame, sometimes I'm glad!

I think it can make a very big difference if it's something that somebody is considering/planning or has already done.

Like with baby names: if somebody says they love and are planning on giving their as-yet-unborn baby a name with extremely unfortunate connotations, you can warn them and tell them honestly that they will be mocked and laughed at their whole life; but if somebody is introducing their 5yo who has an appallingly terrible name, what good will it actually do for you to point it out?

Unless you expect people to help you in your old age

Oh I wouldn’t point it out, but if asked about it I’d tell the truth

Although apparently london is one of the most diverse, multicultural and tolerant cities in the world according to some poll, 300 languages are spoken

These are the people who proudly tell others that they have no filter and just say things as they see them.

The reality is actually that they lack the social and emotional intelligence to temper their approach to different people and different situations, and typically wear it as a badge of honour.

I tend to find that people like that stop it pretty quickly when they're publicly told it isn't acceptable, because they realise they aren't being admired for their complete lack of tact.

My mum’s like that and she’s getting worse with age - she’s only 65 so I dread to think what she’ll end up like.

Yesterday she said something really, really terrible. Really bad. In front of a person it was offensive to. I said ‘Jesus Christ, you don’t say that! Fucking hell!’ and she just said ‘well I don’t mean like that, I just mean blah blah blah’ - excuse that didn’t make anything any better. Incredibly mortifying to witness. Shameful!

For her it’s a combo of

• personality
• being the oldest sibling and a fucking bossy boots
• a pretty small life - lived in an echo chamber pretty much
• thinking she’s very clever and worldly and a font of all knowledge
• intolerance of anyone who lives/behaves differently to how she does. So judgmental. I feel bad for me having to grow up in that environment. No wonder I don’t tell her anything!
• a need to be in the middle of social situations and running the show. Just fucking shut up!!!
• age - as I say she’s definitely losing whatever filter she did have as she gets older

They do it because no one challenges them. Everyone around them tries to ‘ignore’ them, so they are only encouraged further.

Nope! Everything I say to my mother goes against her and challenges her. Very draining and not enjoyable. Doesn’t work though, just means I can’t have a normal conversation with her.