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Thread 8: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

1000 replies

DisappointedReader · 16/07/2025 23:41

Well, this has turned out to be slightly longer than the dozen or so replies I expected when I started the first thread!

The Observer The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

2nd Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found

3rd Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-the-truth-behind-the-blockbuster-book-video

4th Observer
‘I felt I was being gaslit’ – the landlord who helped Ray...

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Thread 2 Thread 2. To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5369425-thread-3-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5370609-thread-4-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 5 Thread 5: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Thread 6
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5372494-thread-6-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-
husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 7
www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5373425-thread-7-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement Raynor Winn

New posters welcome. It would be helpful to read at least the four Observer items above before posting.

To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Please do not engage with possible visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail.

We have done amazingly well together - in the main that is, not mentioning any names but you know who you are! - for seven threads so far. I can't be on the threads as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion ticking along in a healthy and civil fashion is very welcome.

No saltiness. Keep to the path. Thank you.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
FurryHappyKittens · 18/07/2025 11:30

Someone asked many pages ago what we want to happen. It may have been in Thread 7.

I would dearly love for the sole surviving copy of Easy Win's book to find itself in the hands of a journalist.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 18/07/2025 11:34

Is anyone registering to watch /go to the Observer thing Monday?
Please will you report back!!

Crikeyalmighty · 18/07/2025 11:44

@Aspanielstolemysanity yep - a smart lady after the success of the first one would maybe have lightened up on the terminal illness aspect and updated that aspect certainly - although it would have been difficult to just drop in the reality of the homeless aspect bit and why it happened. She could also have dropped in the French place along the lines of ‘many years ago we bought xyz but left it to rack and ruin as we didn’t have the money to do it up, pay the taxes etc - and it was pretty unsaleable as it was etc .

Crikeyalmighty · 18/07/2025 11:46

@FurryHappyKittens I think it’s very common too -plenty of posts on mumsnet about sibling rivalry often focussed on possessions, homes, holidays , money etc

Humankindness · 18/07/2025 11:51

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 18/07/2025 10:42

@Humankindness a couple of questions for you,

Are you saying that the Hemmings family are lying about the stolen money? If so then for what reason?

You said yesterday that Bill Cole (landlord) wanted "a slice of their life". What did you mean by that?

I'm not trying to trip you up here btw, just genuinely curious.

You may not want to read this answer now because you’ve been instructed by other contributors to ignore my posts.

All the same, and to counter the statement that I’ve refused to engage (!!) here are my answers:

I’ve said that in a pure legal sense, Winn is not guilty of embezzlement at this stage based on the available evidence. The Hemmings have made some accusations. I neither believe nor disbelieve them. But I’ve questioned the assumption of guilt on this thread. A jury would be dismissed for reaching a conclusion prior to the presentation of all the evidence.

When an individual gifts someone a cheap rent (or similar) there are usually expectations that the recipient owes the gift-giver something. Friendship, information about themselves, ongoing gratitude etc. On that basis, this translates into a power relationship where one party can remove or retract the gift if they don’t get what they want. If I were a reserved individual by nature I’d begrudge the intrusion into my life and want to remove myself from the situation. What if Bill experienced a social distance between himself and the Winn’s and felt affronted? This is why he’s on my list of individuals in this drama with a potential axe to grind.

Crikeyalmighty · 18/07/2025 11:52

@notwavingbutdrowning1 yep - although I think Tim and university is probably accurate - when you have not much money coming in even the piddling amounts you get can suddenly look like quite a lot in lump payments and as an add on if you are paying peppercorn rent - and I’ve known quite a few 50 somethings go and do it with no intent of really using it or earning much afterwards- as you don’t pay back unless earning over a certain amount. It’s one of the few things I think is probably accurate

ZiggyPlaysGuitarrr · 18/07/2025 12:03

Humankindness · 18/07/2025 10:18

Winn says that she didn’t have the evidence to prove what actually happened. Selective presentation going on here….,

on your second point, that’s a non-evidenced based statement

You're still missing the point regarding the embezzlement.

If I were falsely accused of stealing £64k, I wouldn't be paying it back. It's not on me to prove I didn't steal it, it's on the accuser to prove that I did. I would welcome the investigation that would inevitably clear my name, not disappear in the middle of the night.

Besides which, she hasn't actually denied stealing the money!

notwavingbutdrowning1 · 18/07/2025 12:05

Crikeyalmighty · 18/07/2025 11:52

@notwavingbutdrowning1 yep - although I think Tim and university is probably accurate - when you have not much money coming in even the piddling amounts you get can suddenly look like quite a lot in lump payments and as an add on if you are paying peppercorn rent - and I’ve known quite a few 50 somethings go and do it with no intent of really using it or earning much afterwards- as you don’t pay back unless earning over a certain amount. It’s one of the few things I think is probably accurate

Yes, good point, @Crikeyalmighty.

You do wonder why he didn't think of it a bit earlier though - as with her getting a job with the sheep shearing. Why not get some sort of job before? There are so many places in the book where common sense seems to have completely deserted them and yet they see themselves as the heroes in their own story. I think there are stories where people do crazy yet heroic things - but this definitely isn't one of them. I didn't find myself rooting for them. Mostly I was thinking, FFS, grow up. The bit where they ask their children for money appalls me. I don't understand why they couldn't ask other relatives instead.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 18/07/2025 12:08

ZiggyPlaysGuitarrr · 18/07/2025 12:03

You're still missing the point regarding the embezzlement.

If I were falsely accused of stealing £64k, I wouldn't be paying it back. It's not on me to prove I didn't steal it, it's on the accuser to prove that I did. I would welcome the investigation that would inevitably clear my name, not disappear in the middle of the night.

Besides which, she hasn't actually denied stealing the money!

And she's also never elaborated on "what actually happened" .

Cakeandcheeseforever · 18/07/2025 12:16

notwavingbutdrowning1 · 18/07/2025 12:05

Yes, good point, @Crikeyalmighty.

You do wonder why he didn't think of it a bit earlier though - as with her getting a job with the sheep shearing. Why not get some sort of job before? There are so many places in the book where common sense seems to have completely deserted them and yet they see themselves as the heroes in their own story. I think there are stories where people do crazy yet heroic things - but this definitely isn't one of them. I didn't find myself rooting for them. Mostly I was thinking, FFS, grow up. The bit where they ask their children for money appalls me. I don't understand why they couldn't ask other relatives instead.

@notwavingbutdrowning1 well we know they wouldn't have got far asking their nephew for money 😅

notwavingbutdrowning1 · 18/07/2025 12:21

Cakeandcheeseforever · 18/07/2025 12:16

@notwavingbutdrowning1 well we know they wouldn't have got far asking their nephew for money 😅

This is true!😂

Her mother though? In some narratives, there would be the implication that they were too proud to ask for money. But that's not the case here, since they ask their kids. And they're not too proud to steal ...

DisappointedReader · 18/07/2025 12:21

Come on people, take note of KimMumsnet's post and becalm yourselves and the cause of the saltiness please. I can fully understand your pps but it would be a shame for the unwelcome little flurry of deletions I have just seen to continue or to allow the thread to be further diverted, taken over or even derailed. There is sometimes such a thing as too much kindness, so maybe stop with the tagging and quoting please.

Or it will be off to the cupboard under the stairs for the guilty pathies, with only the author's own audio version of TSP for company.

OP posts:
AldoGordo · 18/07/2025 12:26

notwavingbutdrowning1 · 18/07/2025 12:05

Yes, good point, @Crikeyalmighty.

You do wonder why he didn't think of it a bit earlier though - as with her getting a job with the sheep shearing. Why not get some sort of job before? There are so many places in the book where common sense seems to have completely deserted them and yet they see themselves as the heroes in their own story. I think there are stories where people do crazy yet heroic things - but this definitely isn't one of them. I didn't find myself rooting for them. Mostly I was thinking, FFS, grow up. The bit where they ask their children for money appalls me. I don't understand why they couldn't ask other relatives instead.

I think perhaps one of the most truthful things in the book is probably when they start the walk.

‘You up for this?’ He looked tired, but didn’t seem to be in too much pain.
‘Nothing better to do.’

My impression is the walk was really just that, nothing better to do after losing their house and Moth experiencing a bit of mild, occasional, unexplained pain. Everything else about the plot seems added in retrospect for maximum emotional punch.

Bruisername · 18/07/2025 12:31

i don’t need a court of law to determine her guilt as me believing it’s more likely than not she’s a thief only has the result of me not wanting to buy any of her stuff in future

the embellishment and use if hindsight in the book would be fine if the book wasn’t non fiction. Is that SW fault? Partly, but one also has to question why the publisher wanted it there too.

is she the devil incarnate - of course not. I’m sure she has a lot of positive traits. I just don’t think honesty is one of them.

DisappointedReader · 18/07/2025 12:42

Just to add, please check your posts for this morning to see whether any have been deleted. That will help to avoid any more in the same vein going 'pft'.

OP posts:
User14March · 18/07/2025 12:43

AldoGordo · 18/07/2025 10:47

I think this conclusion is fair. It seems likely the idea snowballed into something that RW couldn't then stop. She never knew how successful her book would become. Nevertheless, the narrative should never have been presented as non-fiction and she must have known that.

Edited

I’d have also been concerned re: publicity around film meaning Hemmings story in press, plus. Unless you’re the sort with rhino hide, to ride it out & the money more than compensating for this. Very easy to get caught up though.

derxa · 18/07/2025 12:44

notwavingbutdrowning1 · 18/07/2025 12:05

Yes, good point, @Crikeyalmighty.

You do wonder why he didn't think of it a bit earlier though - as with her getting a job with the sheep shearing. Why not get some sort of job before? There are so many places in the book where common sense seems to have completely deserted them and yet they see themselves as the heroes in their own story. I think there are stories where people do crazy yet heroic things - but this definitely isn't one of them. I didn't find myself rooting for them. Mostly I was thinking, FFS, grow up. The bit where they ask their children for money appalls me. I don't understand why they couldn't ask other relatives instead.

The sheep shearing thing is another red flag. Sheep shearing is generally a young person’s game. Young fit men do the shearing. They have to have strength to hang onto the sheep. And it’s usually young fit women who tie up the fleeces. It’s hard work. And I have never heard of green fleeces.

MerryMet · 18/07/2025 12:50

From today's Bookseller: https://www.thebookseller.com/comment/should-publishers-take-the-high-road-on-fact-checking

"A fictional tale in which two people take a walk across some of England’s most beautiful scenery has made it to the top of the charts,” wrote our charts editor – and indie bookseller – Alex Call this week, reporting, of course, that it was David Nicholls’ much-loved You Are Here (Hodder) that was top of the charts, its paperback having been released a week earlier. The reference – a cheeky one at that – was to Raynor Winn’s The Salt Path, the veracity of which has been questioned by a piece in the Observer that delved deep into the author’s background.
The Sunday newspaper – recently bought by Tortoise Media – asserted that the story of redemption portrayed in the book, and its follow-ups, was false, that the author’s financial background was not as described, and that the partial recovery from illness of her partner, Moth, was overplayed. Winn has responded by describing the claims about her husband as “utterly vile, unfair and false”, and dismissing other charges as either mistakes she had already rectified, or simply misleading. Meanwhile, her publisher Penguin Michael Joseph has asserted that it “undertook all the necessary pre-publication due diligence”. While it has not stopped selling the book, or dropped the author, it has delayed a fourth book. Perhaps in a hint towards a future rebrand, Winn now calls the story “a capsule of time when our lives moved from a place of complete despair to a place of hope”, not a detailed transcript of “every event”. In turn, the Observer has posted a lengthy response to Winn’s counter claims, while its investigative reporter Chloe Hadjimatheou went on its News Meeting podcast to give more background to its report.
The piece has, as Hadjimatheou said on the podcast, scratched a nerve. Fact-checking across non-fiction has been under the microscope: back in February, my colleague Heloise Wood wrote about how editors felt compromised by the need to get the work out of the door, despite concerns over accuracy. “It’s a carelessness that I think is rife in publishing at the minute, because of the increased workload being given to already overworked staff,” said one editor. Past Penguin General communications director Amelia Fairney went a step further in an op-ed for the Observer that will have been a painful read for insiders in the 90th year of the founding of Penguin by Allen Lane. His mission, wrote Fairney, to bring quality information to a mass audience, was “now under threat from publishing processes that put profit before truth”.
Some of this feels a little heavy-handed. It took months for the Observer to pull its piece together, following a tip-off from a contact whose name and reasons for sparking the investigation have not been disclosed. Publishers are not journalists, and most must instead rely on common sense when dealing with stories that might appear, well, too good to be true. Agents are also hardly blameless either. In a conversation I had between a publisher and an agent about The Salt Path, neither side could quite agree on who should vouch for the author. Both wanted to pass the buck to the other. In the age of computer-written books, accountability is going to be a growing issue for everyone.
It is possible that some mistakes are not part of a wider fault-line and that some authors are just particularly adroit at spinning tales – true or not. However, the widespread reaction to the Observer’s investigation is worth reflecting on. If readers stop trusting us, we may not be able to walk it back.

Comment: Should publishers take the high road on fact checking?

The recent widespread reaction to the Observer’s investigation of Raynor Winn and her book The Salt Path is worth reflecting on – readers must not be allowed to stop trusting us.

https://www.thebookseller.com/comment/should-publishers-take-the-high-road-on-fact-checking

Fandango52 · 18/07/2025 12:51

Humankindness · 17/07/2025 21:57

I don’t defend it. But compared to Putin, Trump and Netanyahu I think it’s a lesser evil. I also imagine that when your life is falling apart, it’s more likely that you’ll not do the right thing.

Do you participate in 8 threads worth of discussion about petty theft? If not, why are you here?

I understand you’re trying to contextualise the theft in the grand scheme of things, but I think you’re going a bit too far.

You risk minimising the theft - which is very significant - by comparing it to what Putin, Trump and Netanyahu have done. That’s upsetting and offensive for the Hemmings family, who suffered the consequences of the theft, and for anyone else who has been affected by a similar event.

How would you feel if you’d had tens of thousands of pounds stolen from you and people who knew about it said, ‘oh it’s nothing in comparison to what Hitler and Stalin did, is it?’ I’m sure you’d be very upset.

Catwith69lives · 18/07/2025 12:51

Crikeyalmighty · 18/07/2025 10:58

I think on reflection the wording of ‘we didn’t lose our house because of the Hemmings dispute’ may actually be accurate - it seems it was because the loan was passed on and then called in due to default. So the hemmings issue and subsequent loan was the underlying issue but not actually the final trigger for losing the house . I think it was selective wording.

I tend to disagree. As I see it, there are 2 completely separate transactions:

  1. The original investment by TW into the property company sometime in the 1990s. We don't know how much this was, but the fact that TW was working as a gardener for the NT, suggests it wasn't a huge amount (unless they remortgaged the house to make the investment in the first place, which would have been bonkers!) The original investment would probably been in the form of equity.
  2. TW and SW agreed to pay back £90K to the Hemmings in 2008 although they signed an NDA and made the payment on a non admissions basis.
  3. They asked the relative for repayment of the original investment but its hugely unlikely that it was in the region of £90K and would have been enough to repay the amount payable to the Hemmings. The relative couldn't find the money the Walkers requested so he made a loan of £100K payable on demand with IR of 18% (which SW claims he agreed to waive)
  4. When the relative's company went bust in 2010, TW's original equity investment became worthless. However, the loan of £100K was still outstanding and transferred to other company creditors.
  5. So IF the property company had gone bust and the Walkers hadn't had to have taken out a £100k loan to repay the money they had embezzled from the Hemmings, they wouldn't have lost their house, they would just have lost their original investment.
  6. So in conclusion, in my opinion,the loss of their house was directly related to the Hemmings dispute.
User14March · 18/07/2025 13:01

Test

sualipa · 18/07/2025 13:08

Humankindness · 18/07/2025 11:51

You may not want to read this answer now because you’ve been instructed by other contributors to ignore my posts.

All the same, and to counter the statement that I’ve refused to engage (!!) here are my answers:

I’ve said that in a pure legal sense, Winn is not guilty of embezzlement at this stage based on the available evidence. The Hemmings have made some accusations. I neither believe nor disbelieve them. But I’ve questioned the assumption of guilt on this thread. A jury would be dismissed for reaching a conclusion prior to the presentation of all the evidence.

When an individual gifts someone a cheap rent (or similar) there are usually expectations that the recipient owes the gift-giver something. Friendship, information about themselves, ongoing gratitude etc. On that basis, this translates into a power relationship where one party can remove or retract the gift if they don’t get what they want. If I were a reserved individual by nature I’d begrudge the intrusion into my life and want to remove myself from the situation. What if Bill experienced a social distance between himself and the Winn’s and felt affronted? This is why he’s on my list of individuals in this drama with a potential axe to grind.

Edited

I'm potentially with you on the whole Bill issue. He was an investment banker with Rabobank who’s trying his hand at being a gentleman farmer/cider maker, running what appears to be a fading but historically significant cider farm and brewery. His wife is ill, so he puts things on pause for a while. Then he reads The Salt Path and somewhat uncharitably sees an opportunity to rent out his empty farmhouse on some vaguely defined arrangement.

Given their growing fame, it seems like a bit of a PR move. There doesn't appear to be any formal contract that he can point to, so if it was all based on a nod and a wink, then more fool him. They perhaps driven by a bit of greed were probably after more than just a farmhouse. Maybe they were hoping for a sweetheart deal where they provide the publicity in exchange for minimal effort. And honestly, why not? Business is business.

In the end, neither side feels happy, so they move out. End of story until Bill decides to tell it to The Observer. It's pretty much she said/he said and he's no wilting violet on his uppers living off a meagre stipend.

Bruisername · 18/07/2025 13:12

Agree the bill article is just his version of the truth and I’m sure their version and what the actual truth is are other things

interesting though that the walkers get sympathy for having illness than he does for his ill wife mind you!

I'm not sure how much he used them for publicity but it doesn’t sound like the cider was being made with a commercial bent or he surely wouldn’t have entrusted it to two novices? Not sure how much publicity a hobby farm needs

Aspanielstolemysanity · 18/07/2025 13:14

sualipa · 18/07/2025 13:08

I'm potentially with you on the whole Bill issue. He was an investment banker with Rabobank who’s trying his hand at being a gentleman farmer/cider maker, running what appears to be a fading but historically significant cider farm and brewery. His wife is ill, so he puts things on pause for a while. Then he reads The Salt Path and somewhat uncharitably sees an opportunity to rent out his empty farmhouse on some vaguely defined arrangement.

Given their growing fame, it seems like a bit of a PR move. There doesn't appear to be any formal contract that he can point to, so if it was all based on a nod and a wink, then more fool him. They perhaps driven by a bit of greed were probably after more than just a farmhouse. Maybe they were hoping for a sweetheart deal where they provide the publicity in exchange for minimal effort. And honestly, why not? Business is business.

In the end, neither side feels happy, so they move out. End of story until Bill decides to tell it to The Observer. It's pretty much she said/he said and he's no wilting violet on his uppers living off a meagre stipend.

While I don't disagree that agreements like this quite plausibly fall apart due to misunderstandings that weren't ironed out at the outset etc. Indeed that wouldn't be much of a story at all... the story of Moth claiming he had only a couple of months left to live was very specific. And so there has been no comment from Tim or Sally in response to this. It it was untrue they could say so. Indeed it is a libellous statement and they could take action (and their lawyer could have got them an injunction before the story came out)

sualipa · 18/07/2025 13:26

Bruisername · 18/07/2025 13:12

Agree the bill article is just his version of the truth and I’m sure their version and what the actual truth is are other things

interesting though that the walkers get sympathy for having illness than he does for his ill wife mind you!

I'm not sure how much he used them for publicity but it doesn’t sound like the cider was being made with a commercial bent or he surely wouldn’t have entrusted it to two novices? Not sure how much publicity a hobby farm needs

And he has sat on his farm for 7 years - seemingly doing nothing as an absentee landlord - can't imagine they are the flavour of the month with many Cornish people and would Rick Stein have visited without the Salt Path connection - I doubt it if there was nothing going on.

Bill, 58, had spent more than 30 years working in the City, mainly at a Dutch agricultural firm, Rabo Bank. He had saved for three decades to indulge his dream of owning his own farm. In 2011 he bought Haye at St Veep, nestling in the stunning Cornwall countryside overlooking the River Fowey. The heritage apple orchards have yielded cider there for more than 800 years.

But his wife’s cancer diagnosis meant they had to be near a hospital, so the family had never managed to live on the farm.

You really don't seem to be able to buy the stuff or their website is moribund and the company accounts show it making a pretty big loss.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10345923/officers

https://smuggledfromcornwall.com/

SMUGGLED FROM CORNWALL LTD people - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

SMUGGLED FROM CORNWALL LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10345923/officers

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