To worry about the effect of a newborn on my 3yo

[mamariama]

I’ve got a 3-year-old daughter and we have a really lovely relationship — she’s my favourite person and this is my favourite age. We spend all our time together: playgrounds, days out, cuddles, lots of laughs. We have a nanny-housekeeper 8–2, which means I don’t cook, wash, iron or clean much and can just focus on her (and she’s very used to having my full attention, no nursery and no plans for nursery especially with a baby being due). My husband works long hours and is sometimes away overnight — she loves him, but definitely prefers me, and whether she’s ok with me leaving depends on whether she’s doing something fun (fairground rides? fine. dinner at home? asking when I’ll be back).

Now I’m pregnant with a boy (IVF, very wanted, no surprises), and while I’m excited to give her a sibling, I’m also terrified of how it’ll affect her.

First up: the birth. She’ll be with the nanny during the day and my husband at night. She’s never fallen asleep for him before, but I guess a) I can’t exactly skip the birth and b) she has to give in eventually if I’m not there, right? I’ve heard stories of kids being traumatised by mum “disappearing” to have the baby, hating the mum and refusing to see her after, but also seen those cute reels of siblings meeting for the first time — so who knows.

Then there’s the postpartum. Newborns obviously need constant feeding and holding, and I hope to breastfeed — meaning I won’t exactly be swanning off to see Frozen with my daughter anytime soon. But how do I explain that without making her resent him? “Your brother needs milk to grow” seems to put the blame on him, which I want to avoid.

And finally, I really don’t want to become the parents where the firstborn just gets handed off to dad while mum is with the baby 24/7. My husband has a month off, but still — how do we make sure she still feels like my girl, like before, and not pushed aside?

Sounds like little one is spoilt and pampered to you have made a rod for your own back there and maybe parenting probably before bringing another child into the mix might have bin a better idea spoiling kids ds and gentle parenting doesn't do kids much good in the long run u not going to be by her side 24/7 as she grows up and goes to school etc

Perhaps it isn’t your intention, but after reading your updates, it is clear that you are coming from a perspective of significant privilege. Some of what you are saying is quite alienating or potentially offensive to the vast majority of parents who are not in your position. Not many families can afford for one parent to stay at home indefinitely, with support from a nanny/housekeeper, and put a child through private education. Which is totally fine - everyone has different circumstances - but it absolutely doesn’t mean that other older siblings are any less adored than your daughter. Hopefully this is not what you’re suggesting, but it does slightly read like this!

You sound like a good mum, and I’m sure your daughter will make the adjustment to big sisterhood very well, even if there is the odd rocky moment.

I'm finding a lot of your observations about nurseries, the children who attend them, and their parents, to be offensive @mamariama

My son has been feeding himself since he was 12-14 months with a spoon and now at almost 2 he only uses the “mummy feed me” trick when he wants attention / feels mildly jealous of his baby sister. I had two with 16 months between them and I made sure my eldest had part time nursery and a solid routine of activities without me beforehand so he didn’t blame the newborn for the change - if you don’t make the change before your new baby comes your daughter is going to absolutely hate the newborn given how little she has seperated from you and how all consuming a newborn is - you can do loads of things to try and still find time for her but ultimately her life is going to completely transform and the more that doesn’t happen until the birth the more she will blame the baby. Also, it’s lovely she has a healthy attachment to you but a toddler also needs to learn to separate from their primary attachment figure to explore the world and she sounds quite a lot behind on that piece of things. (For what it’s worth my trick of making the birth a non event because his routine was very solid beforehand and I’d dialled down my availability already really worked and my son is very sweet to his baby sister already).

In terms of making bed time work - I think you may have either forgotten about or not had the challenge that is cluster feeding / the witching hour with a newborn. They basically tend to need all your attention from about 4pm to 8-9pm for the first few months. As such, I made sure someone else helped with bedtime for my eldest for the first four months (he was already very very sleep trained and had a great bedtime routine so he went down easily) and then at about four months I had managed to get my youngest into the same routine and since then I’ve combined their bathtime/bedtime effectively. I would have really really struggled if I didn’t have someone else help with bedtime before that and making sure they both got to the point of being settle themselves to sleep quickly made a huge difference.

My friends 5yo still sometimes does the "why is no one feeding me" when sat at a table in front of his dinner, and mummy or another adult is required to pick up the burger and hold it to his mouth to take bites! He's perfectly capable but presumably it's some combo of wanting attention/feeling lazy. He was also "too tired" to pull up his pants and trousers after going to the toilet yesterday.

I'm sure there must be a middle ground somewhere between indulging the behaviour and insisting they do it themselves, when partly they're just seeking connection with an adult.

I don’t recognise what you’re saying about nurseries at all and think you’re justifying sending her to her ‘club’ in your head by stating everything that makes it ‘ better’ but little of it makes sense, how are the people who look after her at the club any less ‘strangers’ than the staff at a nursery would be? My daughters has staff who’ve been there for 20+ years and have looked after kids who have then gone on to work at the nursery in turn! Hardly strangers to one another any more than your housekeeper and nanny is or any club or hobby staff.

my daughter goes to a lovely village nursery setting they go on trips around the community, swimming and dance classes, a yoga practitioner comes in, forest school a whole day once a week. She can write her name and do basic phonics and maths at 37 months old, and is very independent (to the point of saying mummy go away! When I’m helping her with self care etc). I’m extremely happy with our approach to her early years and the setting we chose, especially seeing as I have absolutely no concern re her development at this point, and you clearly have enough to start a mumsnet thread about your daughter’s

Also I find it very sad and depressing you call bedtime, bath time eg. ‘Mundane tasks’ - these are your daughter’s childhood, these memories make up who she is, they’re not just things to ‘get through’ or worse, hire staff to do for you. It’s awful your husband has no interest in these things and makes him seem much less of a man despite his apparent ability to ‘provide financially’

I haven’t read all the thread but wanted to share some encouragement. There were some similarities with my situation when I was expecting my 2nd and my eldest was also 3.
i worried as she was very mummy focused and not particularly fond of younger kids
(I remember anxiously seeing her age 3 at a cafe scowling at a little girl of about 18 months gazing adoringly at her saying “mummy why is she looking at me!” And watching her yank a baby doll by the arm and drop it when bored etc 😂
But it was so lovely to see how she loved her sister when she arrived. (Not going to lie there was also a big adjustment for her but it was overall positive)
it helps that when the baby can talk and giggle she/he can be transfixed by watching older siblings and they can love this attention 😀
my youngest had a laugh just for her sister, no one else could get her to laugh that much. It was lovely to see.

The advice I was given is that remember you are giving your eldest the gift of a sibling. It’s a great supportive life long relationship at its best.

Also include the eldest with baby visitors. Get them to introduce visitors to their brother. Big up the eldest: say to others: she has become a big sister! Very important etc.

if help is offered by friends/relatives, give them the baby to cuddle/watch.
Then you do something with eldest.

I was told: little babies can enjoy a warm body and soothing voices of not just you.
the eldest really values time with you, because she’s had to adjust to you feeding etc the youngest.

when the baby got a bit older I would put her down and do 30 mins of something with my eldest eg a board game.

She adjusted really well and now is really kind and caring to little ones, she’s got great baby sitting skills in the making 😀

Siblings have existed since the dawn of time. She'll get used to it as will you

I would be concerned about sending a child to reception at a UK private school without experience of a pre-school type environment. In the prep school my children attend all children have been in nursery/ pre-school whether or not they have SAHMs. Almost all come through the school nursery and have started some phonics etc as well as getting used to a bit of carpet time, following school rules and routine etc. And at 3/4 they can start developing friendships independently which they just can’t do if they are with you 24/7.

I was pretty much going to write a version of this @mamariama

Your children remember happy bedtimes, and they know perfectly well when one of their parents finds them a chore.

You'll grieve the relationship you once had with her when it was just the 2 of you.

You'll make even more effort with her that you thought you'd never physically be able to, to get that relationship back.

Your relationship with her will evolve. It will be the same, but different.

When baby needs you and the big one wants you, you say things like "Mummy is just sitting here to finish my drink, then I'll help you/play with you/tickle you" when really, you are sitting to nurse the baby. You'll get more creative with your 'excuses' depending on whatever is around you at the time. "Mummy is just going to eat my cracker first..." (aka nurse the baby and cover their head in crumbs) and "Mummy just needs to get my hair brush from the bathroom...." (aka change the baby's nappy in the bathroom), also "Mummy is just going to look under the cushion for the TV remote, can you help me look?" (busy them for 5 mins while you nurse the baby...) etc.

Someone will always be crying, you included. The baby won't remember but the big one probably will. In these times, always attend the big one first.

A dad who has never put his child to bed in 3 years. He’s basically bought his way out of being a proper parent. Bet he feels delighted with himself!

His wife also thinks he's a great dad, which puzzles me.

He bankrolls a privileged lifestyle (the OP has 6 hrs' paid help every day, so she doesn't even have to do the washing or make the beds) but this doesn't make him a great dad.

It just makes him a man who earns a lot of money.

Just to add
eldest likely clingy at the moment as can smell change in the air due to you being pregnant. Kids sense so much!! She’ll adapt.
i ended up doing most bedtimes on my own for a few reasons. I think I breastfed through some. My youngest was very hungry all the time 😂
you’ll all adapt and it definitely gets easier past the newborn stage.

I am noticing a theme. Nannies, grannies and aunties. It seems that having a penis excludes any child rearing.

I’d consider what you’ll be teaching your children. Why does your daughter need to work hard at school when she can just marry a rich man and stay at home?

My twopennyworth for what it’s worth is that you need to make plans to start in nursery sooner rather than later otherwise by the time you have no choice but to send her to school she will think you are sending her away because her brother has arrived.
As others have said you have got several months to reduce her dependence on you - and as a mum of four I’d say don’t waste the opportunity. No matter how much you enjoy being with your little girl now you are not doing her any favours by being continually at her beck and call, and when her little brother arrives unless you are the most laid back mum on the planet you will begin to resent the demands she makes on you. It’s definitely not uncommon for the behaviour of older siblings to regress anyway when the baby is born so you really do need to do what you can now to mitigate these.

I think I would try and encourage independent eating and toileting asap as the screaming is going to be really stressful for you when you have a newborn who needs feeding etc. She will be ok, she will adapt try not to worry too much especially as you’ll have help with the nanny and her dad around a lot.

@Beebopboobopmy intention wasn’t to offend anyone and I am sorry if I have @TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne

I don’t mean to offend anyone — if I did, I am sorry. I still think what I said, but this is my opinion and doesn’t have to be anyone else’s.

I said already I don’t really like the idea of nursery (and my husband doesn’t) and I said I think he is a very good dad, yes he works a lot and is away many nights. Then people ask me why — why I don’t like nursery and why I think a dad who is not 50/50 in childcare but is a provider is a great dad.

But for me it is simple: I would not want to put my child in nursery — you would, maybe, and that is fine. For me, the “perfect” 50/50 where we both work, both do laundry and cooking, leave our child in nursery would be worse. Perhaps for you my life or my husband’s would feel really unfair and sad. This is the whole point — these are just personal choices.

If you are happy with your nursery and your husband and your way, perfect. I am happy with mine. You maybe would never choose my husband or my life, and I would also not choose yours — and this is okay.

It is difficult to explain why you wouldn’t choose someone else’s life choices without offending them (perhaps you wouldn’t choose to stay home all day with a 3 year old because it’s boring TO YOU and doesn’t challenge YOU intellectually, which sounds offensive but isn’t intended to, when it just justifies why YOU wouldn’t, not why I can’t do that). But I don’t mean judgement to anyone — only saying what feels right for me. Perhaps it’s good you don’t want to marry my husband and I don’t marry yours 😄

“MidnightPatrol · Yesterday 21:57

I think you need to send her to a nursery for a bit so she has a life outside of you.
Part of the concern here is because you have created a co-dependency whereby you are never apart. This extends to bedtime - your husband should be able to put her to bed.
Creating some interests outside of you is probably healthy for her anyway at this age.”

This with bells on. Based on what you have described, assuming you’re in the UK, your DD is going to really struggle with school and the related social sharing. She doesn’t have to be in nursery every day but maybe 2 or 3 days or at least mornings a week would be helpful.

And it’s actually a bit concerning that you’re saying 3 is your favourite age. Every age brings its joys and challenges.

To me, your and your DD’s lives sound a bit like a gilded cage. I don’t think you’re helping her by fostering such an intense dependence on you. I think you’re setting her up for some real difficulties.

My mum was an SAHM when I was young. My dad still often did bath time and bedtime and I know other SAHMs whose husbands are involved in childcare when not at work. Being the sole earner is not a reason to duck out of childcare and it’s not helpful to mothers or children if they do.

I am a fan of the proposition that it takes a village to raise a child. It’s good for children to have a number of loving, trusted adults in her life. Your DD will do much better with your new baby and with school if she has more independence from you.

I completely get that you are entitled to your own life choices , and to raise your child how you like within the law of the land !

still think some time away from you whether that’s preschool, daddy doing bedtime and self care, or whatever , would be good. There was a thread not so long ago where a poster had been so excited to send her daughter to the preschool class of a well regarded girls private school. Very lucky to get in etc. well the level of independence required of very small kids there was intense - lining up for set toilet times, completely independent toileting, handwashing, etc. expected to serve and feed themselves, clean plates up. OP was getting daily calls that her dd had soiled herself as she wasn’t used to the level of independence with planning toilet needs, the actual deed of going toilet and cleaning herself up. Bags of poopy pants sent home daily! Staff refused to even help children undress after accidents etc. you might want to make sure your DD’s reception class won’t be quite as intensely independent because even the brightest 4yo would need to be very switched on to cope IMO

there are state primary schools with preschools attached that are not ‘daycare’ and are much more about school readiness, with qualified teachers etc. kids can attend when they turn 3, normally morning OR afternoon session. May be an option for you if the private daycare type nurseries don’t appeal?

Ahh, but you’ve just done it again! Perhaps you don’t understand how privileged you are?

At no point have I said that I find looking after my own children boring or lacking in intellectual stimulation.

But, financially, it would be challenging for my husband and I to provide for our children in the way that we wish to with only one parent working. So I am not able to be a SAHM (with oodles of paid help to boot). The lifestyle that you describe, whilst perhaps technically a personal choice, is one that you must understand is NOT a choice that many can make?

Please think about this before you repeatedly run down parents who send their children to nursery. Some people want to continue their careers and that is fine. Some people have to continue to work in order to provide for their children and that is fine. Most parents have to make some compromises in order to make life work as effectively as possible for their families.

Nursery isn’t somewhere parents dump their kids if they can’t look after them themselves, op. They are extremely important for the child’s development. I was a sahm and I still sent my children to nursery before they started school. Perhaps it’d help if you and your husband stopped viewing it as a bad parent’s dumping ground, as you clearly do.

Boggles the mind that someone can be so unaware of their massive privilege.