To worry about the effect of a newborn on my 3yo

[mamariama]

I’ve got a 3-year-old daughter and we have a really lovely relationship — she’s my favourite person and this is my favourite age. We spend all our time together: playgrounds, days out, cuddles, lots of laughs. We have a nanny-housekeeper 8–2, which means I don’t cook, wash, iron or clean much and can just focus on her (and she’s very used to having my full attention, no nursery and no plans for nursery especially with a baby being due). My husband works long hours and is sometimes away overnight — she loves him, but definitely prefers me, and whether she’s ok with me leaving depends on whether she’s doing something fun (fairground rides? fine. dinner at home? asking when I’ll be back).

Now I’m pregnant with a boy (IVF, very wanted, no surprises), and while I’m excited to give her a sibling, I’m also terrified of how it’ll affect her.

First up: the birth. She’ll be with the nanny during the day and my husband at night. She’s never fallen asleep for him before, but I guess a) I can’t exactly skip the birth and b) she has to give in eventually if I’m not there, right? I’ve heard stories of kids being traumatised by mum “disappearing” to have the baby, hating the mum and refusing to see her after, but also seen those cute reels of siblings meeting for the first time — so who knows.

Then there’s the postpartum. Newborns obviously need constant feeding and holding, and I hope to breastfeed — meaning I won’t exactly be swanning off to see Frozen with my daughter anytime soon. But how do I explain that without making her resent him? “Your brother needs milk to grow” seems to put the blame on him, which I want to avoid.

And finally, I really don’t want to become the parents where the firstborn just gets handed off to dad while mum is with the baby 24/7. My husband has a month off, but still — how do we make sure she still feels like my girl, like before, and not pushed aside?

Could be a cultural thing (I’m non Brit and husband is non Brit but we are from different countries originally) but for both of us personally nursery isn’t a “standard” thing to do, the way school is, it’s where kids go if their mums have to go to work and the family doesn’t have another option. Neither of us went to nursery ourselves and we firmly believe that for the child it is best to be with their primary caregiver for the first 5-7 years

I'm sure you won't answer this but I am so curious to know which countries you're both from that has this perspective. In so many countries it's the norm for children to be in some kind of full time education younger than the UK.

I do think your last sentence means you may be creating an issue. It really does take a village to raise a child, and sometimes that village is family, often it's a setting away from home.

My dd did find it hard. You'll have the advantage that you'll be able to hand the baby to the nanny and give your older one attention and won't have to get chores done. That'll help a lot. I'd have found it really helpful having an extra pair of hands.

She’ll be fine.

I'm sure OP's dd will be fine. My late dh grew up in South Africa. His parents couldn't afford nursery and he only started school at 6. He was academic and had excellent social skills. It clearly did him no harm.

Your family sounds incredibly similar to mine and I also just had a baby with a 3.5 year old child. Husband works long hours and overnights, I’m at home… DS only ever does bedtime with me , only does a playgroup 3 mornings a week etc etc

I was REALLY concerned about how he would cope but he’s done amazing. He adores his little sister. He is definitely more clingy and there has been a lot of playing up, being a bit babyish like saying he needs carrying up the stairs (I don’t do this!) but my understanding is that’s incredibly normal.

My first DS was nearly 4 when I had my second DS, it was the best thing for him to be an older brother as he was becoming spoilt, our fault, but a lovely child who had all our attention. Once new baby was home, he was a great sleeper so I could still spend a lot of time with DS1 and we had 6 glorious months with DS2 slotting into our world before DS1 started school. DS1 still slept in with us, while DS2 slept in his own room and again this helped DS1 going into his own room. They really were best buddies, who played together, watched tv together, did activities and had so much fun. I wouldn’t say I loved my first more, but the time spent just us 2 for those first few years will always be special.

Does the nanny ever look after your DD alone e.g. whilst you go to an appointment or pop to the shops?

I think it's great for children to be mostly with their primary caregivers when they are young but I think it does them good to be used to being with other trusted adults too. We sent both of ours to nursery at 3.5 years for 3 hours each morning, but I understand that isn't for you. Mine also benefitted from classes e.g. swimming lessons or dance class where they had to listen to the teacher.

In terms of her independence, when she screams, do you give in to her? Then she is learning that screaming works. You need to start off giving her a small boundary that you can hold and not give in e.g. 'ok I'll feed you if you want, but I need to finish this (small bowl) first'. She can them scream if she wants, but you do what you said. Over time you can build that up to 'bigger' boundaries but the important thing is she knows you mean what you say.

My 2 are 3 years apart. My eldest had teddies and treated them like babies. We would go for a walk, me pushing the pram and her pushing her toy buggy. Whilst it was more work having 2, they have always been best friends. Some things we did (similar to what others have said):

• Talked about OUR baby to include DD
• When people visited, made sure they were interested in both of them
• Got DD to help and praise her for it e.g. getting a nappy, singing a song to DS whilst I cooked dinner
• Multitasking when feeding e.g. reading a book, chatting, doing a puzzle
• Giving DD 1:1 time at nap time - this was tiring but probably easier if you have a nanny who can help with your baby to give you more time
• Telling baby DS he would need to wait a minute e.g. 'Oh DS I think you need a new nappy. Let me just finish this story for DD and then I'll change it'. Obviously DS didn't understand but it showed DD it wasn't just her having to wait.

You talk about how close you are to your DD but it sounds like you’re creating a rod for your own back, in all honesty.

I’d also be really embarrassed to be married to a man with a 3yo who had never once done a bedtime. That’s awful.

I had a 2 year old and a newborn and yes it was a lot of work but once we found our new routine it was great!

I agree with others, involve her as much as you possibly can! My little girl helped pick out stuff for her brothers new bedroom, she helped pick out clothes and then chose a toy she wanted to give him.

The day my baby was born, my parents brought my dd up to hospital. I wasn’t holding the baby when she came in so she could cuddle me first and then see the baby. We also got a little gift for her from the baby. She then left with my dh so he could put her down to bed.

I think you need to start swapping up routines, it would benefit her from being a little bit more independent and not relying so heavily on you. My dd is now 3 and has fed herself since before she was 2, she doesn’t stop and ask for me to feed her. She will also go to bed with either me or my dh, so I think it would be a good idea for you to pop out and let your dh put the little one to bed. Get her more used to it and makes life easier when your baby is born!

My dd didn’t go to nursery, but I had lots of structured activities to keep her busy and then would enjoy the odd movie afternoon with us, when we needed a bit of rest! As much as I wanted to spend all my time with dd, it’s not possible, things change and you now need to split your time. My DD went out with family members when my dh went back to work, just to get her out for a bit and burn off some energy.

The top tip I got from my midwife is that if both children are crying at the same time and the baby can be left for 1 min then check in with my oldest first, explain you’re going to help the baby and she can come too and sit next to you. That way she isn’t feeling left behind.

A sample of n=1 is basically an anecdote.

Similar gap and similar set up here - a SAHM for 3.5yrs who always does bedtime etc. Like others have said, I think you just find your rhythm as a family. There will be hard times and difficult moments where you feel like you have to ‘pick’ one and your eldest might regress in some areas but you just have to lean into that and support them as best you can.

I will say that we sent out DC1 to nursery at 3.5 for some half days for two reasons. Firstly, it meant I got solo time with DC2 which helped with some guilt as DC2 didn’t get all that time and focus like DC1. Before birth you worry so much about your first and then after they’re here you worry about this tiny newborn who is at the mercy of toddler tantrums! So that made my guilt easier. The second reason for a bit of extra nursery is the switch from nothing to full time school felt way more intense for my very loving DS and it felt like the fairer option for him. I understand that it isn’t the norm for you guys so no judgement here - the time I had with DC 1was the best and I’ll do exactly the same for DC2. Just wanted to give some of the positives!

Re bedtime, it sounds tricky as you’ll be going solo regularly. Again, you just have to figure out a routine that works for you but it’s okay to end up all in the same bed getting your toddler to sleep while you hold your newborn. Just survive those moments and don’t put loads of pressure on yourself to have everything done ‘right’.

I definitely agree with getting the older DC to help but don’t force them to if they’re not into it. And say things like, ‘sorry, baby, DC1 needs me you’ll have to wait” or tell DC2 stories in front of DC1 about the fun places they’ll go here they’re ‘big like DC1”.

Finally, re the tantrums to control you. Toddlers are incredible scientists and three year olds seem to master in psychology! I would really work on not giving in no matter how big the tantrum gets. Because each time you do give in it feeds the next tantrum so it turns into a horrible cycle. Be there for your DC, echo back to her what she’s feeling “you’re cross because I won’t feed you” but don’t do it for her. I know they are still so little and I am very focused on doing what’s developmentally appropriate for children but it sounds like your DC is just trying to test how much she can control you and you’re giving her way too much power. She’ll be much happier knowing that you and your DH are in control and not scared into acting by her big emotions! Dr Becky Kennedy is great in this stuff so maybe check out her social media/book.

Good luck - you’ll be fine 99% of the time! And nothing compares to a sibling - you’re not taking away love from DC1, you’re giving her another person to love and be loved by.

So to summarise, he's a shit hands off Dad because he's funding your way of life, and you're 3 year old is your best friend

Kindly, do you have any friends or hobbies outside of your daughter? It all sounds VERY intense and insular

I agree, it all sounds very unhealthy.

but for both of us personally nursery isn’t a “standard” thing to do

I hear you. But the one thing I would remember is that your DD will be going into a school environment where most kids probably will have been to some sort of nursery or preschool and, as a result, the Reception teachers aren’t used to dealing with kids who are “away from mum” for the very first time. So I’d maybe look at some preschool/early years educational settings and see if any of those might be an option for a couple of mornings a week, or something like that?

If your dd goes to a club what would be the difference of her going to pre school for a couple of mornings a week? Your dd needs to start making her own friends and developing social skills.

your dh also needs to find a better balance between work and family life, funding everything but being emotionally and practically unavailable is not okay.

Wise advice.

Congratulations on the new baby! I think your little girl might surprise you. I had exactly the same concerns, and I needn’t have as my eldest is just the best big sister. Even when breastfeeding she would sit beside me and shove her baby doll up her jumper to feed her baby too. Having a sibling has brought out the best in her. I’m sure she will still feel secure in her relationship with you, and while there might be some wobbly moments in the beginning, it will pass. Best of luck!

It seems to me that you might have an idea about a perfect way of parenting and perfect way of doing things generally. But as you can see from the comments there’s no consensus on what perfect looks like. And you can also see that your perfect (from your perspective) family set up is currently not giving perfect results. You’ve had advice on how to deal with your dds tantrums etc so I won’t repeat that.

I would suggest two other perspectives to take into consideration.

The first, your husband. You could look at this in another way - he is not getting the chance to enjoy a nurturing relationship with his DD. There are a couple of consequences here - your DD has only one primary carer when she could have two.. or more. He remains distant from the life of the family. It does not allow him to express and develop the caring, empathetic and emotional side of his life. For me, parenthood was hugely significant to who I am as a person, but also to my DH. We both have an understanding of the practical and emotional work involved in parenting. From a societal perspective, if men continue to take a back seat in caring responsibilities within the family then our current patriarchal and unequal social structures will not evolve.

The second, the new baby. Your DD has had three years of individual care and attention from you. How are you going to replicate this experience for your new baby? It can’t be exactly the same, but how do you go about attempting a reasonable level of fairness in how much attention each child gets? Fairness will be a determining factor in the strength of the sibling relationship as they grow.

Oh and to add, look up the ‘hug button’, it’s just a little technique to help with separation anxiety. My eldest had quite a few spells of separation anxiety and we did a version on this, she even still asks for it before bed now, so maybe try that now do you can do it before you go into hospital, and before bedtimes with dad.

I agree with pp that some preschool time would be good for your DD. Going from 4 hours a week to 9-3 (possibly 8:45-3:30) 5 times a week at age 4/5 will be a huge transition for your DD.

Whilst nursery/daycare can be about necessity and many of us have to use it like that, it is also about making the transition to full time school gradual. So that children are used to the routine of drop off / pick up, finding their peg, snack time, story time and so on, before there is also the academic pressure of learning to read and write etc.

You mentioned that your DD is enrolled in a school for the year after next. Does that school have a preschool that she could attend? Or do they recommend any particular local preschool or drop and go playgroup?

For the comments on whether my husband is a good husband and dad or not. Surely that’s subjective and your opinion. To me a dad who does bedtimes from time to time, but also expects his wife to work full time, clean after she gets home, cook at least half of the dinners etc would be my worst nightmare. I’d much rather a man who can take care of his children financially, ensure they have a present mum that can raise them rather than be sent away to nursery all day, who spends his spare time after work playing and bonding with his kids, even if he doesn’t do the mundane tasks like bedtime, who essentially takes care of virtually all housework and a lot (most?) of the cooking (by paying for the nanny) is as excellent as a dad can be. So as long as the man you’re married to satisfies you, and the man I’m married to satisfies me - then they’re both excellent dads and husbands!

@BendingSpoonsyes the nanny does look after DD on her own, takes her to activities and lessons, but it’s more out of necessity like if I had a doctors appointment, a date night with my husband here and there, hairdressers, rather than popping to the shops for a relaxing afternoon, so it isn’t very often.

@Zonderill add that it isn’t necessarily that it must be the mum, only the mum, always the mum. Nannies, grannies, aunties help of course. It’s just that sending your child to a formal childcare setting with strangers, rather than family, is seen as something you’d only really do out of necessity.

@BusMumsHolidayin our culture it would typically be grannies and aunts but due to health / visas / living abroad this likely won’t be the case for us. Our nanny sort of steps up as what a granny or aunt would do in our culture when I am in hospital giving birth.

(sorry I can’t find who asked this) what’s the plan with the bedtime routine when I give birth? Well 😄 I’m saying this as someone who hasn’t yet had her 2nd so perhaps this is an expectation vs reality… but the plan is that I either feed the newborn / newborn chills with me / is sleeping when DH isn’t home and I put DD to bed, or ideally he’d be with DH whilst I put DD to bed. DH plans to travel a little less in the first 6-9mo whilst we find our feet, and is taking the first month off almost completely (some work will have to happen but minimal, no travel)

@SayDoWhatNowno, they say nursery absolutely isn’t essential to attend the school but there is a nursery attached if someone needs it.

How do you think your daughter is different to the trillions of kids over millenia (since cave days) that have got along just fine once siblings come along? You are massively overthinking, they adjust. It’s normal. It’s not bigger than Ben Hur. Just do things like read books while breastfeeding, get her to do a puzzle while you exclaim how brilliant she is etc. It’s not hard, people have done this for centuries without older siblings never speaking to their parents again and hating the new additions for life🤣

Agree with this.
Could you go out of an evening once or twice before the birth so she has a trial run of bedtime with Daddy. I find that mine can sense if I’m in the house, but if I’m out, they go down for Dad. I went on work trips and to my hubby, drinks with friends form when both of mine were one.
we had our second when DD was 4. I was worried she would feel a bit displaced but she just adores her DB and has been very patient, very little jealousy. But she did go to nursery and then to school.

@Girliefriendlikespuppiesvery very different vibe, they spend a lot of time outside, substantially smaller group. Also, from nurseries I’ve seen, the “club” is different in the sense that you can tell the teachers know they’re being paid for a ‘nice to have’ service rather than a necessity where the parent needs the childcare, so it looks and feels like they try much harder to provide value rather than pass the time whilst mum and dad are busy. I’ve toured quite a few nurseries, very high end ones, very standard ones, as we didn’t rule it out before actually exploring it, and no, absolutely not for us. The club also also much more about language and learning what I can’t teach her at home, whereas I don’t see what a nursery gives that she can’t gain via play dates / me teaching her.

She has a lot of socialisation with kids her age, just supervised by me rather than by, effectively, a stranger.