Constance Marten case — I feel the police have some responsibility too

[Siff]

I know Constance Marten and her partner made dangerous and illegal choices, and I’m not excusing that — a baby died and that’s heartbreaking. But I can’t stop thinking about the way the case was handled and whether the police have some responsibility in how things unfolded.

As a mum of four who’s struggled mentally after birth, I keep thinking: if I had just given birth, was vulnerable, and felt like the whole world was hunting me down — would I have thought clearly? Probably not. The media coverage was intense, and the police were everywhere. The pressure must have been overwhelming.

I honestly believe the fear created by the police operation pushed them into making more and more desperate and risky decisions to stay hidden. It wasn’t just a search — it felt like a witch hunt. No safeguarding, no attempt to reach her as a vulnerable mother, just a hard push to capture and punish.

I think that approach had consequences. The police must take some responsibility for creating the kind of fear and pressure that led to this tragedy. The way they went about it likely made things worse — not better — for the baby.

It’s easy to say she was selfish or unstable, but mental health in the postnatal period is fragile. People don’t always think rationally when terrified. I just wish there had been more humanity in how it was all handled.
Anyone else feel the same?

Exactly this. Baby Victoria was only ever a symbol of how they court defeat the enemy.

Her welfare was never a consideration. Had she not died in that tent, they’d have abandoned her sooner or later because they have no interest in parenting. Only drugs, each other and winning a war that exists only in their heads.

If she wanted a baby so desperately as PPs have stated, she already had 4 she could have had access to had she wanted.

She was offered a house and paid support by her family and turned it down.

She was given placements in mother and baby units.

Would have been given any amount if SS support had she engaged rather than antagonised.

None of these are actions of a woman desperate for a child. They are the actions of a selfish, careless, narcissistic drug addict.

Ive seen many children removed in DV cases but the mother has had chance after choice to either leave the abuser or have the children removed. Everyo e knows its not as si.ple as just walking away. Social Services understand a d know the difficulties around coercive control, threats, fiancial abue etc. A huge amount of support is offered by social services with issues around involving police help, change of living arrangements, financial support, specific counselling but often the women will stay with the bloke.

I've seen many similar cases, too. Even when the woman has had help to find alternative acommodation, move into it, all benefits put in place etc, they will often drift back to the abusive, controlling partner.

At least all I ever had to do was raise a safeguarding, the decision about what action to take was well outside my remit, thankfully.

I agree, I hope they don’t get custodials, they’ve suffered enough. What they need is help.

Unfortunately I believe that Constance has Paranoid Personality Disorder.

She will have been assessed by a multitude of MH professionals pre trial and I haven't seen this even hinted at. And surely it'd definitely be something the defence would think worth a mention too, if it were the case.

Thank you for sharing that with me.

The evidence is all in the public domain.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd11x1xgj78o.amp

You actually want these people to walk free?

If anyone still feels sorry for either of them, just read about their trial (or trials in fact). The judge said they were the most disruptive defendants he'd ever encountered in all his years. They've behaved in the most outrageously entitled and petulant way you could possibly imagine and made a total mockery of everything. They haven't even mentioned their baby or other children, let alone shown concern, sadness or remorse. It's absolutely been 100% all about them. And just to cap it all, despite her £2.4 million fortune, they were awarded legal aid costing us god knows how much. It's been one very expensive pantomime.

It certainly is, but that's apparently still not good enough for some posters.

I do actually feel sorry a bit for the fact that they will now be separated.

They are not star crossed lovers 🙄.

You have to be taking the piss? No rational person thinks these people should walk away from this to what go into therapy and have a hug or some kindness shown to them. They let their baby die ! They abandoned 4 previous children .

I do find it very strange, however, how much they wanted to keep this baby, when they had failed to show up to many of their contact appointments with their other children. They had been offered so much previous help and support and removing those children from them really was the absolute last resort. That said, she seemed to spend a huge amount of that time concealing pregnancies from the authorities. The judge summed it up exactly when they said that they were fighting a non existent enemy. They were just driven by paranoia. Unfortunately they were two very damaged individuals.

However, it does raise the issue of responsibility. How much control did they have over their own very flawed decision making. It's very easy to judge them against the standards of normal people. They clearly weren't insane. However, neither were they fully sane. I think that the sentencing should reflect that.
I do actually feel sorry a bit for the fact that they will now be separated.

As adults deemed to have capacity, they are both responsible for and accountable for their own behaviour. I’m the first to recognise there’s a backstory that contributes to tragedy but really they both made decision after decision, had access to more resources than most and killed their child in the face of untold offers of help.

There’s been no question of insanity or personality disorder, nor any question that they lacked mental capacity. They knew what they were doing.

I agree we need to be really careful with the "everyone is a victim and there are always extenuating circumstances" culture.

She was born into a life that most of us would describe as extremely privileged Yes her parents don't sound ideal but that's the case for many people. How long can people keep blaming their upbringing before taking personal responsibility?

(edited to add paragraph)

@Jellycatspyjamas i don’t think you are ‘pro’ adoption any more than I am. My post isn’t trying to claim everyone holds one of those extreme beliefs. It is saying that some people do have extreme views on both sides about the subject of adoption, and both those sides can be problematic when discussing it.

If someone’s stance is ‘nonsense, social workers do not make mistakes’ that’s as problematic as ‘social workers always wrongly remove children.’

Sorry.

What?

They killed their baby, shown no remorse at all, turned the court case that was for justice for her into a circus

And you think they've suffered enough?

Fucking hell.

No, but they are both very flawed vulnerable individuals with clear mental health issues who have become wholly reliant upon each other. They put each other first and for what?! They have absolutely nothing left. I think for them, that will be the part that destroys them (rather than the loss of their baby whom they appeared to have less feelings for). I just think that the whole situation is a sad one. Justice has been served and I am very glad of that, but there are no winners here.

exactly.

This was reported in regard to the older children:

The couple began repeatedly missing contact sessions with their children, and then stopped visiting altogether. Their eldest child became distressed and developed a stammer. "My mummy and daddy cancelled again," the child told nursery staff.

as you say, there was no interest in actually caring for their offspring. The poor children were pawns in the toxic relationship between Marten and Gordon. The older four are undoubtedly damaged but at least have lives left to live, while the youngest paid the ultimate price.

how anyone can hold the police/ her family/ social services or anyone else in any way responsible is ludicrous.

I agree, people need to take responsibility.

@LetsGoRoundAgainAgain don't feed them. They're just fishing for a reaction.

I do actually feel sorry a bit for the fact that they will now be separated

Well that's what happens if you're found guilty of awful crimes

Ooh now...let me think. Help eh? Apart from her family offering to buy them a house and put in paid support; apart from social services bending over backwards to accommodate their crap parenting; apart from SS setting up regular contact sessions with their children (after being removed to a place of safety) that they couldn't be bothered to turn up at; apart from CM and AG refusing to engage with all help from any authorities etc etc etc...you get my drift?

What bloody help do YOU think they now need instead of prison? They haven't 'suffered enough'. That was the fate of their children: one dead after a horrific short life, and four probably permanently scarred by their parents' casual neglect.

Save your sympathy for those children.

Have you read the description of the rape that he committed in the US. It is difficult to have much sympathy for him.

The police are absolutely not to blame. The pair of them are vile people who had absolutely no consideration for the other four children they lost to the system as well as their newborn who tragically died as a direct result of their actions. Not the police’s actions, not social services actions, their actions and their actions alone. It was their previous* conduct that raised significant concern for this baby and unfortunately, the concerns were proven to be completely valid. Their previous and ongoing conduct has been nothing short of despicable.

They could have chosen at any point to stop, to hand themselves in and get their daughter checked over if they truly cared about her wellbeing. If they had really acted out of fear initially, they would have stopped. But they didn’t. This was never about fear, this was everything about “sticking it to the man”, their grandiose ideas and not wanting to be told what to do regardless of the impact this would have on their child. Don’t make excuses for either of them.

Yes I agree - social workers can get it wrong, both leaving children for too long and removing too quickly and both can be harmful. I also think we need to recognise the public rarely have all the information to make an assessment of whether the right decision was made in any one case.