Constance Marten case — I feel the police have some responsibility too

[Siff]

I know Constance Marten and her partner made dangerous and illegal choices, and I’m not excusing that — a baby died and that’s heartbreaking. But I can’t stop thinking about the way the case was handled and whether the police have some responsibility in how things unfolded.

As a mum of four who’s struggled mentally after birth, I keep thinking: if I had just given birth, was vulnerable, and felt like the whole world was hunting me down — would I have thought clearly? Probably not. The media coverage was intense, and the police were everywhere. The pressure must have been overwhelming.

I honestly believe the fear created by the police operation pushed them into making more and more desperate and risky decisions to stay hidden. It wasn’t just a search — it felt like a witch hunt. No safeguarding, no attempt to reach her as a vulnerable mother, just a hard push to capture and punish.

I think that approach had consequences. The police must take some responsibility for creating the kind of fear and pressure that led to this tragedy. The way they went about it likely made things worse — not better — for the baby.

It’s easy to say she was selfish or unstable, but mental health in the postnatal period is fragile. People don’t always think rationally when terrified. I just wish there had been more humanity in how it was all handled.
Anyone else feel the same?

So many other countries allow open adoption and provide a chance for abusive and neglectful parents to keep traumatising their birth children even when these are unfit to care for them.

You know the police don’t control the media right? They can put out their own statements, but the media took it and ran.

they won’t have put any sort of media statement out without a risk analysis. If they’re actively evading authorities, chance are they’ll have ditched phones, avoid public places with cctv and use cash. With no electronic tracking, the only way to find these people was to hope someone sees them and comes forward. So the only way to find them was a public campaign.

chances are they needed to give the full story and emphasise the risk to the baby to stop anyone thinking it was baby stealing social services, because many people do think that way still. It needed to be clear that they were the risk so people would assist in the search, and not dismiss it as two misunderstood people wanting to stop their baby being taken from them.

police don’t do stuff for shits and giggles you know, they are professionals who deal with this every day. They know the risks. What makes you think you know better?

@Over40Overdating Brilliant and very moving post. Sums it all up and reduced me to tears.

@kidscanwatchcbeebies

Im am adoptive mum and now a foster carer.
Its surprising how many people still think that social services can just simply remove children at will.

My experience with my son and his three siblings, all in care and or adopted, is that his mum was given lots of support and opportunities to keep her children but she kept going back to the fathers. I do think there were failings in her past before she had her own children but its not as simple as saying just support the mothers.
With my last foster child, we don't yet know what went on in his home, but given the extent of his trauma when the truth comes out its going to be pretty bad. He wont talk to the police however, neither will his siblings who remain in the family home. The family are getting a lot of support but quite frankly those children are at risk.

It really isn’t, if anything children are left for far too long in situations that are intolerable. A lot of work is done with women to support their parenting but ultimately when domestic violence escalates, protecting the children through removal becomes the option of last resort.

In this case it’s alleged he threw her out of a window, at what point do you think a newborn should be protected in those circumstances.

Thanks for all the info, I’ve done some more reading since I last posted. I honestly wasn’t aware that Constance had been offered support like a mother and baby unit. That definitely adds more context.

Obviously, if the mother flat out refuses to engage with social services or accept help, there’s only so much they can do. It’s a really difficult situation. But I still don’t think it changes the fact that the authorities could have handled things better. The public manhunt felt so aggressive and criminalising, and that kind of pressure can push vulnerable people into making desperate decisions.
Also, I’ve learned that before the adoption orders, Constance and Mark did have some supervised visitation rights with their older children. But attendance was inconsistent.

After the adoption orders were finalized in January 2022, they had no visitation rights at all. Once the children were adopted, all parental rights and contact ended completely. So any suggestion they retained visitation after adoption isn’t accurate.

Lastly, I keep coming back to this — why was Mark Gordon free? He had a violent history and even physically harmed Constance. He should have been under stricter monitoring or not free to live as he did. That part of the system also failed.

Yes, Constance made serious mistakes, but this case isn’t black and white. The whole system let them and the baby down.

Have you listened to the podcast with the updated court documents?
when you hear how awful they were as parents to the other children and the neglect they suffered before they were thankfully removed, it’s hard to feel any ounce of sympathy for Constance at all. She would always put Mark before anything else, and he is clearly a very dangerous man.

Oh but that's of course ^somebody else's fault' as ever....

You can't possibly think that Marten and Gordon would have believed this softly softly approach?

Given how entrenched their anti-establishment views are, given that four of their children had already been removed, given that they'd repeatedly been given support and chosen to flee each time rather than stay an receive that support, given how they behaved throughout the court process, given what has happened in both their lives previously...you think if the police had just told a little white lie and been a bit gentler they'd have come back and handed the baby over?

Really?

Not to mention the state they left poor Victoria in after she died. No care in life, none in death.

As that isn’t the default option I’m not sure why it worries you. Currently in England children will be subjected to high levels of abuse and violence before any action is taken to protect them in cases of domestic violence. Some children are ‘lucky’ and their birth mother is already being abused long before they are concieved, so they are only abused and neglected before birth.

The whole system let them and the baby down.
These are people who wanted (and still want) to operate outside all the systems to the extent that they lived in a tent during winter with a newborn and did not visit their children in order to conceal her pregnancy from any service that might have supported her and her child.

Some people cannot and will not be helped.

Once the children were adopted, all parental rights and contact ended completely. So any suggestion they retained visitation after adoption isn’t accurate.

The very nature of adoption severs parental rights (and responsibilities) for birth parents, it gives the child the legal security of permanence with their adopted family. It is possible to continue with occasional contact with birth relatives but that depends on the birth family being safe enough and stable enough to cope with it, and very many simply aren’t, at least in the early stages.

The same people blaming services in this case are the ones weeping over other high profile losses where children weren’t removed. Child protection is a complex, messy, imprecise process and massively under funded.

Jesus @Siff come on now

look at what's in front of you. How many times? How many choices? How many how many how many

How on earth would children benefit from having a violent convicted rapist in their lives?

this case isn’t black and white.

I'm beginning to think that @Siff is Constance Marten.

They are well dodgy and I only feel for the children (dead and alive).

It’s not an observation grounded in fact, however.

@Siff

Many adopted children have some form of contact with their family.
They also have life story work so they can understand their history.
Tell me if you had adopted one of these kids how would you explain that dad was a violent convicted rapist but you still have to go and see them?

I had to take one foster child to 'family time ' once a month with his dad. He would get hyped up before, come out traumatised, and I'd have to pick up the pieces and the child continued to suffer.

Sadly I feel to them their children and baby Victoria were not children to be loved and cared for in any kind of normal traditional way but instead symbolic of their ‘struggle’ with authority and something to use as a reason to be anti establishment. They clearly don’t hold the same values as normal loving parents. Even if I knew I’d done no wrong and SS were going to take my baby I’d hand them over to at least be in a warm foster home with food and care than take them out in freezing temperatures like they did.

Have a read of this article if you're still feeling sorry for this pair.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0zkg4g4zyo

Yes, Constance made serious mistakes, but this case isn’t black and white. The whole system let them and the baby down.

No, THEY let themselves and their baby down.

End of.

Its surprising how many people don’t have an issue with rape as long as they themselves aren’t raped.

I read the conditions they lived in and kept bringing children into. It was an awful read. The choice was not to get pregnant again, assuming it was consensual. She COULD have just stood in the street and shouted for help.

She clearly had massive issues, though I find the overwhelming emphasis on her rather than him rather troubling. Such an awfully sad story. I just hope the children's lives turn out OK, though the odds are against them unfortunately.

Embarrassing, I didn’t know about that CCTV image showing them wrapped up while the baby was in the buggy with no blanket. Honestly, that was shocking to see.

The reason I started posting was because this whole case provoked such strong feelings in me, imagining how I’d react if someone was trying to take my babies away. But obviously, I’m not them and can’t fully know what they were going through.