Family problems making me want to move

[Pineapple1826]

Had some family tensions come up over the past few years. Basically stems from the fact that my husbands parents decided to move to our area. I didn’t feel comfortable with it and said to my husband why. He was in agreement and hinted to them that they find an alternative location. They didn’t get the hint, and we then more overtly said we weren’t comfortable with the idea but before we knew it they had found a place near us, and moved in.

Since then there has been tension in the family. They clearly had an image of how things would be and the level of involvement/support they would get. They have expressed disappointment in how things have turned out.

It seems like they cannot accept now or for the future that I didn’t want such close involvement and that for as long as they are near us, that expectation will remain for how they wished/continue to hope things turn out. They are getting older with some health issues and I fear that the incompatible expectations will create more tension in time to come.

I feel bad for them, but also like it’s my right to have a preference for levels of family involvement and that it’s mine and my husbands decision how much we let them into our and our kids lives, not their decision!! And that by moving they’ve almost imposed that on us, without saying a word! They seem to stay at home all the time and it feels like they are just waiting for visits, with no connections or friends around.

I start thinking about whether it could be good to move away from this uncomfortable situation, but my husband says it will affect his relationship with his siblings, which obviously I don’t want to be responsible for.

Any views from others would be welcome. Anyone have past experiences of such issues. What worked and didn’t work?

@PrincessJasmine1 i agree that it is important to look after family and elders. However, not if they are dismissive and disrespecting of your family unit needs in favour of their own desires. If there’s no mutual respect then it cannot work.

My in laws could have decided to move between all of their adult children instead of round the corner from us. But they decided not to because that didn’t work well for them. And therefore have decided to put all the pressure on one of their children and his family, without discussion. I believe that is wrong and highly inappropriate. Why should we have to take that all on when he’s got siblings who are capable of helping? And why should his sibling be moving near us because he’s in need of help too? It’s one sided.

It’s interesting you bring this up. They are Asian and they are expectant of help. It is part of the culture and while there are good things about it, there are also negative sides to this family culture and norms.

Your husband is a people pleaser, he has been brought up to cater to his mum and not rock the boat. The problem is, that no matter how much you try to please, there is always someone you displease. He knows if he put you and children first, he will get raged at and if he puts his parents first, he risks losing you.
Unless he goes to therapy, he will be stuck in this cycle. I suggest looking up enmeshed family’s, where people shape their children to feel shame about having their own needs and wants, that only the adults needs are to be met and the affect on them. I also think your BIL’s MH problems stems from their childhood, maybe he was the scapegoat, that he dared voice his feelings and was punished till he let finally was rid of autonomy.
You need to sit down with H, tell him he comes from an enmeshed family, sympathise and tell him he needs help. Tell him, he can jump through every hoop his mum creates but you won’t allow your children to be used as a bargaining tool to appease his mum. That your children will not be forced into the role of a people pleaser and you will die on that hill, if need be! You’re not asking him to choose but you won’t be allowing any manipulation to spoil your babies childhood. That he has to tell his mum, you and kids are busy and when it suits you all, he can take them round.

Ahhh OP I think you have to be balanced here.
Its reasonable to foster a relationship with locally living GPs.

They are "takers" and its a one way street with them... okay but unless they are actively harmful / racist / Andrew tate loving / violent / criminal people you should allow you DH to facilitate a relationship between DC and GP.

A few hours every or two week isnt doing anything to anyone at their ages. Also you get a break...

Pp is right that there is probably a level of enmeshment at play.

Don't bring up the enmeshed family as they are Asian!
You are working, bringing children up with no spare time, end of.
I would use the excuse when he wants to take children round, that you barely see children as it is as you're working and want to spend quality time with them. I would say, oh I was about to take the kids to the park or go visit someone with kids etc.

What have they actually done wrong? You say there are 'unsaid expectations' and the only example you give of any behaviour is that they asked to see their grandchildren when they moved near you. I'm really struggling to see what the issue is with them that makes you want your DH and DCs to not have a relationship with them.

@JLou08 I get so frustrated when I get this question. From the outset they really had no business to be dictating what role we would take in their lives and they would in ours. I was quite happy to live some hours away from them and to accommodate GC visits and to host them.

Nevertheless. When I talk about unsaid expectations, I’m talking about the things they hint on that show they are discontent with how things turned out. For example, saying to DH ‘well I didn’t ask you for a lift to the hospital’. Essentially, indicates to me that she would have liked the offer but it wasn’t forthcoming. Or, well we can’t go on holiday now as we can’t find someone to take our cats and check the house. These offhand comments show what the expectations and hopes were. Incidentally, DH did then check on their house when they went on holiday (not that it’s a big thing at all), but it’s the principle of expecting that without discussion, and if you don’t do it you’re suddenly the villan! And they knew they’re aging and that there would be more support needed in time. We’re not idiots and we all know moving is a long term decision.

I'm going to be super honest...

My experiences of this are things like

DH Being expected to pay for birthday dinners for x 8 people for fil, mil, bil and his own birthday. Also expectations to send flowers to mil and take pil out for their wedding anniversary 🤷🏻‍♀️ these meals were all £100 a head type affairs.

DH and Being expected to give £100+ gifts every birthday and Christmas when id had 2 mat leaves in 3 years and being critised and guilted heavily for trying to scale it back.

Being expected to travel 4 hours each way to see them at least once a month for an entire weekend so leaving 6pm Friday returning home 10/11pm sunday. Tears if we tried to leave after breakfast or lunch on sunday...

Being used as a literal taxi service when we visited

Having PILs invite visitors to stay in our home without asking then crying hysterically when we said no and DH Being guilted into agreeing (this happened twice 🙈)

Dh doing a 10 hr round trip drive to drop BIL home from an airport during covid because he didnt "fancy the train" or an internal flight.

When FIL died, MIL and BIL went thorough all his things BIL took a rolex and omega and all the gold jewlery. my dh was given a broken 1950s omega worth max £500 and offered any of his dead fathers shoes he might want (they arent the same size also ... shoes 🤮). Dh then on his own (with my help) had to sort of dispose of all his things as mil "couldnt face it" and bil fucked off somewhere...

Key details changed to protect the innocent ie. Me

So when your best example is your MIL making a comment about feeding a cat... it is really isnt the horror show I was expecting 🤣🤣🤣

@Lafufufu this sounds terrible, and my point, which I haven’t made very well, is that this all starts from somewhere and they will take what they can as much as you allow them to. Obviously the response they’ve got from us has made it quite clear to not push this any further and for now that seems to be working. To be honest, the only reason it’s working for now is the DH had very strong words with them and also some separate issues came up with other family members at the same time complaining about their behaviour.

before all this happened, I was getting utterly fed up with my BIL having moved into my house and having a mental health crisis in my attic whilst I was caring for a baby, with my in laws well aware of what was happening and content to leave him there why they enjoyed their holidays and big house. Took a lot of pushing from me to eventually get him out to his parents, where he stayed with them for another year. I was of course, happy to help family in a crisis but this was being pushed and he was then refusing to leave!!

I believe that had I been the one to have strong words with them it would have made nil difference and this is one reason I’m very wary of them. My husband got forced into it as he realised it was negatively impacting his relationship.

But, to be honest, I feel really uncomfortable having them near where I know that my discontent or upset is irrelevant to them and I’m at the mercy of my husband to relay to them what is acceptable/not acceptable.

Some people just have no sense of boundaries and take as much as they can. Awful.

May I also say that my PIL are subtle (which can be infuriating), but they still are doing the same thing. Essentially trying to get as much as they can out of us. It seems in your case, financial and also taking ones time without any consideration of what plans they may have. In our case, ILs have quite high emotional needs. They are very lonely and indifferent with each other, and my MIL is generally discontented and would talk about other family members, including her own partner (don’t tell X this, but… or Y does this but don’t tell them). So she’d create situations which require secrecy and were uncomfortable and you couldn’t tell anyone about but it felt inappropriate to me.

OP, they sound like absolute users who know exactly what they are doing.
They are 100% about their needs and what is best for them.
Your BIL moving into your home with a mental health crisis is absolutely batshit entitled.
You are 100% right to protect yourself against people who clearly couldn't care less about you.
My advice is make it clear to your husband that this issue could cost him his marriage and mean it.
Frankly no man nor marriage is worth the bullshit caring that some women tolerate.

@Lafufu both you and your husband have zero boundaries to have tolerated what you did, people using your home twice uninvited?
Do you really not realise how unhinged this is?

Just because the OP hasn't had quite that level does not mean she is completely justified in not accepting their behaviour.

Having a BIL foisted on you with a MH crisis, when you have a newborn is frankly unhinged IMO.

OP, stay strong.
His parents care only for what they want.
They want a carer for them and their son.
Divorce is preferable IMO.
Don't let that be your life.

Why should OP want to be in the middle of a shit marriage.

@Doorwayss thanks so much. Incredible how MN can give you the confidence to feel like you’re not going completely mad and that this isn’t in any way acceptable.

I highly doubt my husband would want to engage with therapy for this family issue of his. So I need to educate myself and understand how best to manage this for the sake of my family unit. I think NC for me is working well and LC is fine for my husband and he seems to be okay with that for the time being.

last time he went there they suggested that we do find a way to improve the situation which I thought sounded positive. But when my husband asked that we talk frankly about what has happened which has caused this issue, they weren’t so keen. They just wanted to move on without repair or review of what issues have cropped up and how we can prevent in future. He said to me that he got the impression that they didn’t really want to repair with me but have realised that having a poor relationship with me is meaning they aren’t seeing GC as much. I’m not obstructing visits but yes, obviously if you treat the mother badly you are less likely to have regular involvement with GC!! It’s also somewhat alienated them from their child as he’s not massively enamored by what they’ve done.

💯 aware of how unhinged it is 😅
All of this has stopped and is very much in the past now.

Surprise! Relations arent the best with the inlaws these days but I stopped giving a shit / toeing the line and smiling tightly a loooooong time ago.

Now they have stopped treating us like walking ATMs and occasionally buy us a meal...
I do what suits me for the most part but do try and be a bit nice / fake it from time to time for my DH and find a (very) little bit of goodwill goes a long way.

@Pineapple1826 It sounds as if they’re unhappy people who are leaning on you and your DH to “fix” things for them, I.e., make them happier and their lives easier. It’s an impossible expectation.

I still that that your DH needs to deal with them and you stay out of this shit show. And never let his brother stay with you again!

OP, this really reminds me of the way my parents communicate with us. When I talk frankly, they get upset. When I want to make some improvements, they always say no and assume that their way is right. That’s because everyone else in the culture is like that and when they are more reasonable and respectful, they lose out. Eastern cultures are low-trust cultures where everyone is out to get you.

It’s essentially a gaslighting culture where you are always right and everyone else is wrong. You’re upset, it’s because of someone else’s fault. It’s quite toxic.

In our culture, if your parents don’t approve of the person you want to marry (because of something trivial like skin colour, religion or the fact that someone is adopted) then you don’t talk about it, it’s simply forbidden and that’s that. So instead, you elope. Your mother pretends to be distraught in front of friends and relatives and vows to disown you. It’s all a performance. But they secretly couldn’t care less or even feel happy for you. A year later, everything is fine and everyone has moved on and welcomed your husband into the family. And those are the moderate or liberal people. The really nasty ones who are genuinely tyrannical and super-conservative do bad things like disowning you for real, kidnapping you and forcing you to divorce or engaging in honor based violence.

Having given you the context of your husband’s parents culture, I hope to arm you with some tactics for dealing with your in laws.

If you want to move, then do it. And then get your husband to tell his siblings just how just how difficult your PILs were and how hard it was for your family and that the children suffered so much because of the tension it caused in the house. Do the same thing they do. In their culture, there’s no shame in stooping to your PIL’s level. It’s simply how you survive. Also, instead of being genuinely kind, you can perform kindness and they will be equally happy with that kind of attention. For example, you can move away, then be kind in a superficial way like giving them presents.

Please explain about hd siblings more
Are they local too?
Do they help out?

This is what my husband and I have suspected for some time. It’s challenging because you obviously can’t say it to them but clearly it’s affecting their decisions and expectations which then affect other family members. Quite infuriating!

I’ll leave my husband to it. But honestly, it will become difficult as they will need more as time goes on.

I honestly don’t think your H will be able to cater to their needs in later years, he is working full time and won’t be able to devote all his time after work to them. He will go home for meals, see your children and may only have an hour or two left before bed.
I think their plans are totally unrealistic and as they have pushed you so far you’ve had to go NC, it must be apparent to them. They are not getting their own way at all, I would insist if BIL comes down, he stays with his parents, you can’t have him refusing to leave if he has another MH crisis.

Has your In Laws moved closer to other family members in the past? Then moved when their expectations are not met? MIL sounds like she likes to divide and conquer people, by talking about everyone behind their backs.

Stick to what you have now and continue to prioritise your children and your own mental health.
A young family and working means you are already giving a lot.
Remember if you don't value your mental health it will ultimately be your children that will suffer.

When you look after yourself, they get the best version of you.
They are whom deserve your loyalty, not your husband parents and brother whom have decided that you can be at their beck and call.

The early years with children go in a blink.
I wouldn't allow anyone cause me stress to spoil them.

I think that the status quo is working fine and that you should tell your husband that this will remain.

His familys opinion of you is of no concern of yours.
Keep reminding yourself of that.
Stay strong and firm.

@SpryCat No, he’ll have to access support services and rope in his siblings if he can. That’s what I’ve done as an only child, no one person can do everything, but you can organize additional support.

It sounds as if his parents wouldn’t particularly like that, but that’s the reality.

There is a lot of research to show that women in Western countries always put their own family first, even above their husband and partner.
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2023/05/mother-kinkeeping-roles-women-family-network/674039/
Men are often the bread winners so it can be hard to care for elderly parents particularly if his wife demands that all his spare time and energy goes to her parents. Women complain about men being cold and not being emotionally open whilst insisting he has little contact with his own parents. The OP admits she would like her husband to go NC with his own parents.
I know lots of older women who have tried to put distance between their husband and his family. I know a good friend whose husband’s mother died when he was eleven and his Dad brought him up. My friend hated her husband’s loving relationship with his father.When his father died , her husband had tears in his eyes and was visibly upset. My friend was really angry with him and mocked him. Yet I know so many older women give up work early to care for her parents and rely on their husbands for financial support.
I would agree that having elderly relatives living near is the best way of coping with old age. Visits can be short but often. Your husband could visit, take the children and be back within an hour or two.
I wonder how bad the OP’s in laws actually are? I bet if her mother developed a serious illness and needed support she would expect help from her husband. Posters complain that some men move on quickly when their wives die or they divorce. It is perhaps that they are trained by their wives to cut emotional ties from their own family.
I do know men who resent their wives for cutting out his family. It is short sighted and cold hearted.

I’ve read this article and appreciate the viewpoint. But I think this is different. I had some individual therapy some time ago to work through my feeling towards my in laws and at first, my therapist seemed to think that I was being unfair to them (possibly inflating their flaws), but as things unraveled she realised that this is more of a situation where they have an agenda and that they would rather mute me than listen and adjust. Her steer on it then was to provide tactics in helping me keep contact minimal and protect myself from such behaviors.

Before their move here, I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that an adult conversation where I could be honest about how I felt on the issue would be respected and that compromise could be found. But when it was total dismissal of how myself and my husband felt, it was clear that they felt they got to dictate things around us. So yes, I would ideally have NC as a family unit. But it isn’t that simple and as others have rightly pointed out, it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to interfere with them having a relationship with their GC and DH.

@Bowlandbillow where has @Pineapple1826 said she wants or expects her H to go NC with his parents?
If her mum got seriously ill, I think the only thing OP would be asking her H for, is help with the children, so she could look after her mum. Is that not how she will be supporting her H, if his parents need looking after?
When Op brought her newborn home, her BIL was in her attic, having a MH crisis and refusing to leave, instead of enjoying those precious few weeks, H was having to keep an eye on his mums cats and dealing with his brother, whilst his parents were away on holiday, they must of been walking on eggshells, everytime baby cried for fear of making BIL’s MH worse. When his parents got back home, they refused to have their ill son, BIL was refusing to leave anyway and the family high jacked all the attention on them, instead of letting them bond with their new baby.
You have twisted everything OP wrote, to fit your narrative of them being awful to his family! His family are attention whores, everything must be about them!

So your DHs relatives expect you to wipe the arses of your own two babies, then drive around to wipe In-laws arses, then drive round to BIL to check he’s taken his meds?

Fuck that! I feel anxious just thinking about it and it’s not even me. You must be so stressed with it all. I personally don’t think moving is an extreme reaction at all. Your mental health will be impacted anticipating all of this to come.