Parents choosing not to vaccinate their children

[MidnightPatrol]

A child has died in Liverpool as part of an outbreak of measles. 17 are currently hospitalised with it in the city, as part of a wider outbreak.

73% of children in Liverpool are vaccinated against measles - vs an England average of 84%.

A rate of 95% immunisation is required for herd immunity. No child in the UK needs to be getting measles - we can vaccinate against it.

In Liverpool, there is a risk of a widespread measles outbreak due to this low rate of immunisation - it is very infectious, so the risk to the population is significant.

If you are a parent that doesn’t get your child vaccinated, why?

Should the government not be using further incentives to encourage people to take up vaccination - are a third of Liverpudlians really against vaccinating their children?

Should non-vaccinated children be limited from accessing nursery or schools (as in other countries)?

Just a tip for anyone concerned about the triple MMR vaccine. I got DS privately vaccinated against chickenpox as soon as the clinic was willing to do it. (Pox made me horribly unwell as a child and I think it's dreadful that the UK does not routinely vaccinate). A couple of weeks later we rocked up to his first MMR vaccination appointment and were told that he needed measles, mumps and rubella as separate vaccinations because less than 4 weeks had passed since his pox vaccine. So it is possible to get the individual vaccinations on the NHS if you schedule a pox vaccine in the 4 weeks prior to the first MMR appointment - and the cost to get a chickenpox vaccine privately is less than the private cost of the 3 separate vaccinations for measles, mumps and rubella.

DS is still autistic though! <shakes fist at Andrew Wakefield>

I can understand her reasoning. Her DS was hospitalised after a vaccination reaction and was very ill. She has a natural fear that it may happen again. That doesn’t make her an idiot or a moron. It makes her a frightened mother.

I was merely saying that if the jabs were offered separately they may get a better take up. Not sure why I get abused for that suggestion.

Yes, here we are. WE did take responsibility by speaking out about it at the time, only to be shut down.
It seems that those who weren't listening then, are largely the ones complaining now.
If those people want to blame someone for the vaccine scepticism we're seeing now, they'd do well to look a little closer to home...

Because by challenging the Status Quo it's like you're suggesting you 'know better' than other mums.

If you read my posts you know I am sympathetic in many cases, where the benefits aren't as clear cut or eg covid vaccines when pregnant, needle phobia etc

But those arguments just don't cut it with something like measles. That's when you lose credibility

And I would ordinarily agree - but the approach led even the most pro-vax people to question everything they'd ever believed about vaccines - yes, including the MMR.

To them, it now doesn't matter what its for; the trust has been broken.

I live in Liverpool my baby is 6 months , but was 9 weeks prem. I'm looking into getting the meseals jab privately for him to tide him over until his one year jabs .

I have a 5 year old , and want to be able to take him out over summer without worrying . It's horrible.

Yes vaccination should be prerequisite for nursery.& school. If you want all the benefits of society then you can’t put others at risk because you’re an anti vaxxer.

Anti vaxxers are anti social

Well that's when you do lose credibility
Of you look at the UK approach compared to others maybe you'll get a sense of reality and perspective. It really wasn't as bad as you make out
If you cant, and you can't understand the different situations for other jabs. With the support of proper information and education. Well that's on you

I think we don’t communicate enough recognition of people’s concerns and experiences around vaccines. We don’t acknowledge that some vaccines do make you feel poorly for a day or two after administration while countering that with how much more poorly you or your loved one would be with the disease.
I had to be vaccinated against Hep A a few years ago and boy that was a horrible one, but having seen my loved one almost die of the virus, I knew that it could have been much worse.
We don’t discuss the science behind vaccination or the makeup of vaccines. All of this would help people understand the risks and benefits better. Too much paternalism in vaccine comms.

Who’s this ‘we’ @Kissedbyfire1 ?
I have experienced all of that. Everyone I know understands they may feel a bit crap after vaccinations and schedules appropriately for it. Vaccination was taught in science (and to a degree in history) when I was at school and I’ve seen a fair bit about it in the media ever since.

There’s no way the average Joe understands the make up of vaccines, nor would they be interested despite claiming they would and that they need to be told. The only people who should be concerned with the make up of vaccines are the scientists who create them and medical professionals who have studied it in depth.

Conspiracy theorists and anti vaxxers in general are so rigid in their thinking that it wouldn’t matter what they were told about the make up of a vaccine, it wouldn’t be believed or even attempted to be understood. I remember during Covid someone posted the composition of an apple on Facebook and asked if anyone would eat it, just to prove a point. Anti vaxxers said no, too many chemicals 😂🙄. They don’t have the intelligence or interest to care.

It’s funny though how many of these people are quite happy to sniff lines of coke cut with God knows what up their noses on a Friday night without a second thought, or pop random pills. Walking contradictions. The cognitive dissonance is strong.

Excellent post @PepsiMaxCherryAddict
I also think that (most) anti-vaxx sentiment has nothing to do with scientific knowledge or research, and little to do with poor communication from the scientific and medical community.

Most young anti-vaxxing parents will not have heard of thalidomide or other medical scandals.

It seems largely driven by trends, influencers, conspiracy theorists and other unqualified or corrupt scaremongers.

I had the first MMR jab in 1989.
A couple of days later, I started to get quite ill. Mum called the Dr to the house, he said it was just a virus, it would pass. It didn't, she had him out again and he actually got a bit cross, repeated the advice. Then my Mum put a cold flannel on my head, cue a fever fit. Turned out I had Meningitis, but without the typical rash. I very nearly died, only time my Mum ever saw my Dad cry. They believe it was caused by the live mumps vaccine. I was lucky, I was largely unscathed, the little boy in at the same time, with the same thing, died. Our family doctor told my Mum to never let me have the second dose. But that was 36 years ago
My younger sister is fully vaccinated, as are her boys and my girls.
This thread has actually inspired me to phone the drs later and see if they'll advise if I can have it now. Or at least the measles vaccine.
Even that experience didn't turn our family anti vax. It was unfortunate and traumatic, but compared to how they'd have felt if we'd have contracted something we could have been vaccinated against, then subsequently died? Not a chance I'd take
There will always be outliers. Things the medical professionals can't know for certain. Maybe I would have gotten Meningitis anyway. Maybe I already had the beginning of Mumps
Incidentally, my uncle walks with a bad limp. He had Polio when he was little. We need to eradicate these illnesses

This.

Tic Toc and other social media sites share so much misinformation. Some people are dumb, they don't deserve children. Imagine in 2025 having children in hospital or dying for a perfectly preventable illness!

Most measles cases are vaccine strains or brought in from abroad. For the record I'm not anti measles vaccine. However the crazy hyper propaganda we experienced during covid is to blame for people's justifiable scepticism.

The Covid vaccine saved a lot of lives, prevented a lot of people getting really ill , ensured hospitals didn’t get overrran and enabled lock downs to end

There you go, stating facts, silly Billy. You know anti vaxxers can't deal with that...

Parents who won't vaccinate should have their kids taken off them. Unfit parents

The reason for putting several vaccines in one jab is to lower the number of jabs a baby is given.

We vaccinate against the diseases that are common and contagious. We can get some immunity from the diseases in circulation.

This can be why a child with chicken pox can have a sibling who doesn't get it. Their body may have developed antibodies before getting the disease.

Something like yellow fever or rabies is not endemic in the UK so no one gets any immunity other than if they are vaccinated.

I find immunity fascinating. Eyam became famous for isolating itself when the plague arrived.

Many descendants of the survivors still have immunity to plague as it has been passed down.

yes!! I have just googled about the village of Eyam - very interesting history I wasn’t aware of - thx! ☺️

Yes I've been to Eyam in Derbyshire. Was deeply moved by seeing the Parish Register.
So many burials including the Vicar's own children one by one.
And then his wife.
And then in another hand
his own name.
He was largely responsible for isolating the village and thereby saving many others.

Where is Eyam?

Sorry, I see it's in Derbyshire