Why can't people respect the rules around toilets!?!?

[coffeeandmycats]

I’m really angry and just need to get this off my chest. Me and my sister run a small shop, just the two of us and a couple of customer toilets, one for biological women, one for men, signs on the door. Never had any trouble. Until today.
A regular female customer comes up looking pretty upset, says there’s a man in the women’s loo. I go in to check. At first it sort of looked okay, hair, maybe a trans woman? But then I heard a deep voice, saw stubble and a broad build, a wig that looked like a last-minute costume. It was clearly a bloke who didn’t pass. Not even close.
I said politely, this is the women’s loo, please leave. He stared at me and said flat out, “I was born female.” Not I identify as a woman, he literally claimed he was biologically female. I asked him to go and he refused.
So I rang 101, didn’t want drama and wasn’t sure what rights we had as shop owners. The police said we can’t challenge how someone describes themselves. If he says he was born female, that’s it. We’re not allowed to question it based on how he looks. And since no laws were broken, they won’t come unless he’s being abusive or refusing to follow reasonable requests after shouting multiple times.
They also confirmed that the new Supreme Court judgment about women-only spaces is civil law, not criminal. That means even though legally women are defined by birth, you still can’t challenge someone in the moment just because they say they’re female.
I looked into it after, and yep, the Supreme Court (in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers) ruled that “woman” in the Equality Act 2010 means biologically female. But that applies to protecting women-only spaces under civil law. It doesn’t let us stop someone on the spot from walking into the wrong loo. The police still can’t act if someone says they’re female, even if it’s clearly false.
This bloke walked into the women’s loo, lied about being born female, made women uncomfortable, and we’ve got no legal leg to stand on to stop him. Women customers left feeling unsafe.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Sit back and let it happen because the law only kicks in later on? Are we just meant to trust someone who’s lying about their sex to decide what sexed spaces they can use?
It feels like women’s rights are just words, no power in real life. Anyone else run into this mess in their business? I'm nearly losing my mind over how absurd this is.

I can’t be the only person thinking “ this is all made up and didn’t happen “

But the toilets that are provided need to be compliant with the law.

The litigator would be wasting their money; she provides toilets that meet the law and doesn't discriminate.

Read the thread. Not if she allows men into the female toilets she doesn't.

Agreed. But if the toilets are female, then it is not lawful to allow men into them.

I was born female and I have stubble.
These women were born female and have beards: https://www.allure.com/story/women-with-pcos-facial-hair-beard-interviews

Its not out of the realm of possibility that a woman can have stubble and a deep voice.

Again. There is nothing in the law that says OP is obliged to enforce the exclusion of trans women from the toilet in her cafe. in fact she could quite plausibly be sued for discrimination if she tries to do so by trying to guess who is trans, and no woman could bring a claim on the basis that her right to single sex spaces wasn’t being upheld as you claim.

No law requires her to check the sex of people using the toilets.

If you think otherwise please link to the Act. Mumsnet threads are not a legal reference, please stick to government publications.

Lots of links already provided on this thread.

Have a read.

Please link to a law that says this.

This has all been covered already Tandora. As you well know.

Just skim the last few pages and you'll see the relevant info.

No there aren't.

No one is born a "gender" because gender isn't real.

Everyone is born either male or female and when they go through puberty their bodies change irreversibly based on whether they went through male puberty or female puberty. (It is not possible to choose to go through the opposite puberty.) So we can see with our eyes whether someone is male or female based on hundreds of different signs. Not just things like height, hand span and foot size, whether they have breasts or an Adam's apple, whether they have a low pitched voice or a high pitched one, but also things like gait. Male people walk completely differently because their pelvises are a different shape. Most of these signs can't be changed, disguised or covered up, no matter what clothes you wear, hormones you take or surgery you have. This is why the OP could tell so easily that the person in the women's toilets at her cafe was a man.

I have no idea why so many people are insisting that it is difficult to tell what sex someone is. It isn't.

All covered already on this thread.

Just read the Supreme Court judgment FGS.

OP, be careful of the bad faith TRA posters as they do not have your interests at heart here.

You need to cover yourself. But you already know that.

@coffeeandmycats
If you go to a motorway services, there is sometimes a sign at the door of the ladies that says "male cleaner working in this area"

Appropriate adjustment.

HOWEVER
If the door says "womens" and men go through it
you have the right as a service provider to ask them to leave.

If a women complained about men in the female space and you told them to suck it up
THEN you would have a claim against you.

No they can't. Not legally.

It literally says they can in the Supreme Court judgment.

Have you read it?

The SC judgement does not say this.

Yes. It does.

Yes it does.

What do you think the Supreme Court judgment says about single sex spaces, out of interest? It would be helpful to pinpoint where you are going wrong in your understanding.

Please reference and quote the text where it says a cafe owner is obliged to check the sex of people entering the toilet and enforce exclusion if the right evidence isn’t provided , or she is breaking the law.

(You can’t because the judgement does not say this. )

I have repeatedly stated what the Sc judgement says.

hows about putting locks on the doors so that people have to come and ask for a key. That would be better on two counts, first that you can give the correct key out ie male/female but also would stop people just walking in off the street to use your loos.