To ask what you think about Starmer’s plan to stop the boats?

[WhereIsMyJumper]

I cannot see how his ‘one in one out’ plan is going to help. I also can’t understand why France is cooperating with us. What’s the incentive?

If you don’t agree with this plan, what would your answer be?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ckg6x4g6gg6t

You know some posters think her kid should be in a care home and she in the poor house....

Super. Lets make sure we are processing asylum claims timeously to allow them to get on and work and make a difference to the economy as they always do.

Farage tells you he can do everything very quickly. That's because he hasn't got a clue what it involves and solutions aren't quick. Can you explain what Farage has done to help his constituency in a year? It's one of the most deprived in the UK and I'm sure they're desperate for quick solutions.

@HoppingPavlova I'm not sure why but Aus gets people's backs up. It's clear a country resolving the issue shouldn't be looked at for some reason.

Anyway, perhaps the majority will at GE time. As you say only a few fight against it now in Aus, and both parties run on keeping policy as is.

I would also like to understand, in the grand scheme of things, how big is this problem?

Financially speaking, £5bn sounds like a lot of money. But it’s a drop in the ocean compared to the UK govt’s entire expenditure. There is the knock on effect of sharing an increasingly smaller pool of resources with an increasing population- I’m not sure that can even be quantified.

Culturally speaking, how much of an issue are the boats? If people are mainly fleeing fundamentalist Islamic countries, that is an ideology that does not mix with the UK culture (note, I am not speaking about Islam as a whole, just extreme Islam)
Would it be more palatable if people integrated better? How would we go about achieving that?

I think this is a brilliant solution. One of the key problems has always been that, thanks to successive moves by the former Conservative government, there have been no safe routes for people who genuinely wish to, and have a reason to, claim asylum in the UK. This provides (a very limited) one and a clear line of separation between genuine people fleeing harm and oppression, and chancers or those being trafficked into the UK to work in the black economy. I hugely welcome it and also closer, warmer relationships with France, which have been so deliberately damaged in the last 10 years. The next thing I'd like to see is the introduction of mandatory ID cards (or phone apps) for all... it's clear that we are a massive draw because of our 'black economy'. If you needed an ID to work, checked by regular police raids on car washes, nail bars, barbers etc., the business model leading to so much exploitation would be gone, and along with it the incentive to get on boats.

Well, France is our closest European neighbour so strengthening cooperation with them is a start! And actually for this deal to work it also needs the rest of the EU to be OK with it.

I agree one in one out alone won't help enough. Especially with organised crime. But I'd say there are other things that need to be done as well, not instead. Strengthening information sharing and cooperation with the EU is what will really help in dealing with the gangs, and when the Event happened, it took a hit. I also don't think the very combative tone the last government took with France helped. This is a good move, and is am example of the cooperation that needs to happen.

Creating better conditions that stop people wanting to flee is a good idea. Just taking a few decades of from bombing them would help. But the political wind is blowing against sending aid overseas even if it advantages us. Starmer I think did announce some aid being sent to Syria..given they have just finished a civil war, and the country is sort of at a hinge moment well placed aid could actually have a disproportionate impact. But people were cross.

Its not just the war torn countries. Jordan is a peaceful country of which 30% of the population are currently refugees from the war in Syria. That's a huge influx in a short space of time (puts our own issues in context). But they have held together quite well. It's what people on here say they want- for asylum seekers to go to the nearest safe country which shares their values. They can't take any more people really. And some of Trump/Vance's proposals for Jordon would completely collapse it (and which point you have a whole new migration crisis). So pushing back on that sort of madness, even offering economic support if needed would help. But be politically difficult.

Edited for typos

So isn't that the longer term solution?
Help developing countries.Much harder to stop wars, but maybe not starting them in the first place would be a start?

Yes, but you need a ‘short term’ solution. You will always need that. Taking our example, initially the vast majority of boat arrivals were Vietnamese. Then, their economy and civil events shifted. That didn’t mean the boats stopped. Just another group(s) took their place, such as the Tamils and Afghans. You can’t solve everyone’s problems at once, that’s long term, and you need solutions while that’s ongoing. Then a new problem arises, a new long term solution etc. You need a fix for the immediate problem, and you’ll always have one, the faces just change.

Farage isn't in power though, Starmer is. In their manifesto Labour said they would "smash the gangs" and take back control of our borders. They're not doing that, everyone can see it's even worse.

I think a lot of people are fed up of Labour and Conservatives and are willing to give Reform a chance. There won't be a GE for 4 years so we won't know until the run up to that election what Reform will have in their manifesto, but at the moment our interest should be in what Labour are doing/not doing.

I don’t want to give them any more, I want them to be processed so they can work and pay taxes.

So that hotel was “considered”, but has not been offered to them. Your “evidence” is that a not grotty hotel that wasn’t offered to them?

The Trump loving, key Farage supporter, central to Turning Point UK, who flew a QAnon flag from his hotel, went on GB news to tell a story of a phone call where the Home office offered him £1million to house asylum seekers, with absolutely no evidence to back his claim.

There isn’t a single part of that sentence which makes you think “hang on, this might not actually have happened?

We could start by not treating them like shit and dehumanising them.

If I were with a host that did that, I think I’d feel less inclined to want to hang out with them.

It will all collapse. France will be fussy over who they take back and Keir will take anyone as long as they promise to vote Labour and it will not make the slightest difference to the boats.

IDs/apps could help.
As would switching away from cash. Cash is sort of the fuel for this.

But lots of people would be unhappy with that. And even I'm uncomfortable with it being compulsory. Remember the push back/conspiracy theories around Covid. People have long associated ID cards/switch away from cash as being a way for the government to track people better. And they aren't wrong, it's the control it gives the authorities that will help them track people working illegally or selling illegal products.

You need high enough trust in the government/authority for these ideas to fly. And there is.growing distrust in the government/authority. Not just to misuse it, but not to mess it up. And even if I trust Labour, I am not sure if I trust future governments.or whichever tech firm makes the app (probably Palantir. Brrr)

I've always been against ID cards for those reasons. But I think technology means the government can track us anyway no matter what we do (mobiles, cards, cameras) so perhaps it's not such a big step anymore. Shame though.

I get that, but I think as with everything else there is no perfect solution and IDs are pretty much essential (they would work alongside much greater control over tax and preventing people from the 'cash is king' way of operating). I DO trust the government and believe a lot of the mistrust is being sown deliberately by malign actors, largely the Russians (tin foil hat alert!). Absolute full disclosure, card-carrying Labour member for several decades and Starmer supporter. No to Palantir though.

They are by definition criminals though.if they enter the country illegally.

Also, I think the government are the ONLY ones who want to actually solve this problem. Reform and the Tories are desperate for it not to be solved, as it provides such a brilliant rallying-point for racism.

The chance to have ID cards has been and gone, the ID Cards act was scrapped in 2011 by Cameron.

Its now far too expensive to go again, no matter its benefits.

Only because of a highly unjust change to the law by the last government. People have an absolute right to claim asylum in a country where they feel safe.

Yep agree 100%... its all about "look over there" instead of whats really going on in both of those parties.

It was always a question of.civil liberties in the past. Why should we be required to carry a card and identify ourselves etc. Shame to lose that but I think that's the sign of the times.

What like smash the gangs from Labour?

It’s not working and was only a distraction at GE, which some bought.

That is an unusual point of view. You think the Tories and Reform would like to encourage a rallying point for racists?.

Border security is a better way to ensure liberties.

Interesting take on Conservative voters.