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To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

1000 replies

Locutus2000 · 08/07/2025 11:58

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

Resident doctors in England vote to strike over pay

Vote comes after BMA criticised ‘woefully inadequate’ 5.4% award for medics formally known as junior doctors

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/08/resident-doctors-in-england-vote-to-strike-over-pay

OP posts:
Thread gallery
67
OonaStubbs · 16/07/2025 21:35

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:33

@OonaStubbs because their pay is 22% less than 10 years ago. Jobs are there but because anyone from anywhere in the world can apply, UK trained staff don’t get priority. It’s a v strange and stupid system,

Surely that applies to a lot of jobs, not just doctors? Why are doctors special?

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:35

@OonaStubbs and because their assistants earn 30% more. The money is there, just diverted to the wrong places.

To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?
mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:36

@OonaStubbs it costs the UK tax payer £200,000 to train a doctor, money that is lost if they can’t get a job.

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:37

And before you ask, doctors will repay £250,000+ in student loans

BIossomtoes · 16/07/2025 21:38

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:37

And before you ask, doctors will repay £250,000+ in student loans

Only if they don’t piss off to Australia.

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:41

@BIossomtoes still have to repay loan even if do piss off. It’s the law.

BIossomtoes · 16/07/2025 21:43

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:41

@BIossomtoes still have to repay loan even if do piss off. It’s the law.

Edited

But they don’t. I personally know of an NHS trained doctor with a thriving private practice in NZ who hasn’t repaid a penny of his student loan. He just didn’t provide a forwarding address.

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:44

@BIossomtoes then he can never come home to UK as he’ll be arrested 🤷‍♀️.

BIossomtoes · 16/07/2025 21:45

I don’t think he has any intention of returning but if he did it’s highly unlikely that armed security would be waiting for him in Arrivals.

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:49

@BIossomtoes 😂 no but HMRC will be as soon as he hits UK soil. SFE send emails and letters every year to anyone on your account, so parents, and if don’t tell the truth it’s a criminal offence.

If UK doctors didn’t feel the need to go abroad this wouldn’t be an issue. Why did your friend go ? Better money and conditions ? Because UK doctors are treated so badly ?

BIossomtoes · 16/07/2025 21:51

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:49

@BIossomtoes 😂 no but HMRC will be as soon as he hits UK soil. SFE send emails and letters every year to anyone on your account, so parents, and if don’t tell the truth it’s a criminal offence.

If UK doctors didn’t feel the need to go abroad this wouldn’t be an issue. Why did your friend go ? Better money and conditions ? Because UK doctors are treated so badly ?

Greedy.

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:51

@BIossomtoes or knowing your worth.

BIossomtoes · 16/07/2025 21:53

No, greedy. Otherwise he’d have had the decency to repay his student loan, wouldn’t he?

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:54

@BIossomtoes so saving your life is worth less pay than cleaning your toilet ? Good to know.

My DD earned £20 an hour as a cleaner but £15 as a doctor.

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:55

@BIossomtoes your ‘friend’, who you don’t seem to like v much, is breaking the law. So yes, he is greedy and wrong.

OonaStubbs · 16/07/2025 21:57

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:54

@BIossomtoes so saving your life is worth less pay than cleaning your toilet ? Good to know.

My DD earned £20 an hour as a cleaner but £15 as a doctor.

Doctors will earn significantly more than cleaners over the course of their career.

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:59

@BIossomtoes so bloody what. You are paid for the job you do today, not the one you might possibly do in 10 years time. Many doctors will be unemployed after 2 years, so should they all get £50,000 as they’ll earn less over their lifetime ?

BIossomtoes · 16/07/2025 22:04

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:59

@BIossomtoes so bloody what. You are paid for the job you do today, not the one you might possibly do in 10 years time. Many doctors will be unemployed after 2 years, so should they all get £50,000 as they’ll earn less over their lifetime ?

Wrong poster.

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 22:11

@BIossomtoes sorry 😂.

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 22:12

mumsneedwine · 16/07/2025 21:59

@BIossomtoes so bloody what. You are paid for the job you do today, not the one you might possibly do in 10 years time. Many doctors will be unemployed after 2 years, so should they all get £50,000 as they’ll earn less over their lifetime ?

@OonaStubbs for you

Marchesman · 16/07/2025 22:35

OonaStubbs · 16/07/2025 21:31

Why are doctors going on strike if so many doctors are unemployed?

Because the chairman of the BMA council is a failed politician and hardline activist with a decade long enthusiasm for strike action, and very poor judgement. He was responsible for the BMA rejecting the Cass review into children’s transgender "healthcare", and under his auspices its AGM rejected the Supreme Court’s ruling on what a biological woman is and the delivery of single-sex care.

Junior doctors' pay has risen 7.9% since 2015. A majority of doctors did not support the strike, presumably because they have enough commonsense to appreciate that they are well paid or because they value professionalism and patient care.

Marchesman · 16/07/2025 22:49

7.9% in real terms.

And don't believe the guff about what it costs to train a doctor. It doesn't matter if they are replaced by a foreign graduate, because their training doesn't cost us anything.

OonaStubbs · 16/07/2025 23:06

I think a lot of what doctors do will be done by AI in the near future.

Needmoresleep · 17/07/2025 00:06

This may sound odd but I really don't understand all this talk about money. A surgeon friend once gave a talk to a highly academic private girls school and was depressed when almost all the questions were about income. She pointed out that surgeons were, to some extent, manual labourers. Though you could earn a decent amount it was restricted by the hours you were prepared to work. If you really wanted to make money you were better off in a profession (law, banking etc) where you could, when you were senior enough, benefit from the labour of others.

Most people, presumably, go into medicine because they want to treat people. (OK DD did know someone who from the get-go was very focussed on his ambition of specialising in private prostate surgery - apparently an area where labour reward ratio is particularly good.) There are all sorts of non monetary rewards, and so much more interesting than working in an office, or being a cleaner.

It is also worth noting that medical careers have longevity. On the central London private school run, the impact of an economic downturn is interesting. People over the age of 40 are worried. They might have been earning super-salaries but if they lose their job they will struggle to find another, even on a much reduced salary. Suddenly people start asking about careers in the public sector. Similarly an art teacher I knew, at about the same age, had old art school friends who had spent two decades as high flying advertising creatives ask her about moving into education. (And actually a surprising number of well paid graduate finance jobs can be "up or out". You work very long hours and then it you are not considered promotable after two or three years you are out.)

The same does not apply to doctors. As they get older and more senior consultants can end up interesting portfolio careers. Some teaching, some research, as well as day to day work, whilst Thursday evening and Fridays private work pays the London mortgage, with a gold plated pension to look forward to. If you don't feel like retiring at 60 there is always retire and return. Whilst those less interested in climbing the career ladder there is a lot more scope for flexible working, and for living in nice, relatively cheap, parts of the country.

Over the length of a career, especially if you factor in job satisfaction (assuming medicine was the right career for you) doctors earnings can really hold their own against supposedly better paid professions. Obviously if you decide at the outset you are hard done by, you may not realise it.

Minnie798 · 17/07/2025 08:43

I think resident drs should focus on making their case for a pay rise, without bringing other health care professionals into it. Some of the comments on social media platforms can only be described as harassment, it's seriously unprofessional behaviour towards the PA staff group. I believe the GMC previously issued a statement to address this. Of course we've seen it before, years ago it was nurse practitioners/ ACPs. I think the recommendations made in the Leng review are entirely appropriate, but I also think medics should stop tearing their colleagues apart. They are losing the respect of others.

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