To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

[Locutus2000]

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

They should get over it. £38k is perfectly decent in this economy. Once they work their way up to consultant they have a butt load of money. If they want extra money they can always work extra shifts and do private work on the side.

The strike is for more pay.

The BMA have spoken about how half these training positions now go to doctors from overseas, but nothing about the immigration rules that mean it is so hard for young doctors without training to find work.

Indeed a few years back the BMA was welcoming Boris' changes as a "bold move".

The strikes are about more pay. Nothing else. It is offensive to suggest otherwise.

I hope Wes first sticks to his guns on pay and then takes the necessary steps to make the NHS a better experience for both staff and patients. In the meantime ST1s will have done their best to erode public sympathy for junior doctors as a group. Ladder pulling at its finest.

@Gghhhd can’t do private until they are a consultant. And many won’t ever get there as not enough jobs. Doctors are unemployed because not enough jobs. And they already have to do extra hours, not by choice, they get no option.

@Needmoresleep I think you speak from a position of slight privilege. Your DD has had parental back up, others haven’t, and have had to have a job throughout medical school just to get by. They don’t have savings as a deposit for a house and rent is so high they can’t save enough. Why is a doctor worth 20% less than 10 years ago ? Why is there money to pay others more ?

Knowing your worth is half the battle to better conditions. The public seems pretty supportive from what I’m hearing from A&E staff today (currently sitting in one with DofE casualty). But whatever happens doctors need to make the change so the NHS can survive.

Wes just needs to be creative and make ‘pay rises’ that cost nothing, such as student loan forgiveness and paying exam and college fees.

Tough it up and do your job. Our taxes pay their salary.

I think they can do Post-F2 private work if they want.

@Gghhhd no they can’t. They can only do private work post ST8, 10 years minimum after graduating.

They are doing their job, for 20% less than pre pandemic, when I’m sure you bashed your little pot for them.

And their taxes pay for their jobs too.

@Northerngirl821 I think they should strike about jobs and conditions too. But also think they are under paid. Hopefully some things can be fixed on both issues this week - Wes does seem up for change. Compromise is possible if both sides are willing.

Well I suppose they are worth less than 10 years ago because they work fewer hours. It takes more of them to cover the work.

Even if they could do private work early in their career they wouldn't get any.. Anyone in their right mind paying for private care would want only the most experienced consultant looking after them.

Could you please explain why you think that doctors, uniquely, should not have to pay student fees? Literally every graduate pays them. Student loans are not like a debt with a deadline for repaying them. They are a graduate tax. If they manage to stay the course and have a career in medicine they will repay them, if they end up behind a pick n mix counter somewhere they won't. LIKE EVERY OTHER GRADUATE.

Your point about medical graduates only having the choice of one employer is beyond ridiculous. What matters is the number of jobs available, not how many employers they are spread between.

Of course harm will be caused by this strike, that is its purpose. Elective work will cease, because consultants can't be in two places at once, and investigation and treatment will be delayed, with inevitable effects on both morbidity and mortality.

For the 1975 "strike", junior doctors did limit their work dramatically (to 40 hours per week) but they didn't irresponsibly and unprofessionally bugger off.

Ah the doctor bashing. Less hours ? 78 v common so how many would you like them to work a week ? They are the consultants of the future and v likely the only doctor you will see if you are in hospital.

Graduates of many other subjects can apply for many types of job. Doctors trained to be a doctor.

But if this country doesn’t want them, others do. Wait lists will continue to be 7 million + and waits in A&E several hours. We have enough UK trained staff to help with all this but not enough jobs.

As for student loans, it’s an easy way to give a pay rise that costs nothing. Other graduates can argue the same if in a profession that had public value and earning 20% less than 10 years ago. I think the removal of the nursing bursary was awful.

The bottom line is that there is no more money!!!
All the other arguments/ opinions are pointless

And they’ll never repay them, they don’t even start to go down until they earn over £105,000 because interest is so high. Most will be wiped out after 30 years when doctors will have repaid over £250,000.

If you don’t like it, don’t become a doctor

@littlemissprosseco really ?

when current F1-ST8s applied the pay and conditions were not the same as today. Unfortunately they can’t see into the future.

Again most ST1s won't have student loans as they will have gone to University overseas.

How does your DD know her hours are unacceptable. She has not even started her job yet. Professional responsibility is a thing. She is not a train driver.

And be v careful with saying ‘don’t like it, leave’. Same was said to teachers, so they have. Massive recruitment crisis with most schools having to use non qualified staff. And endless expensive supply.

@mumsneedwine it's fewer, not less. I thought you were meant to be a teacher?

There is hardly a shortage of doctors about to finish F2. My understanding is that about half expect to be unemployed in 3 weeks time. Hopefully this strike will mean a few NHS bank shifts for them.

It smacks of greed.

For a supposedly intelligent profession they spectacularly failed to read the room.

@Needmoresleep she has her rota ? It’s less than 6 weeks until start. But I never said they were unacceptable ??? Please don’t get personal and talk about being unprofessional. And train drivers have massive responsibility too !

Many ST/CT1s have student loans ? As will majority of doctors. It’s just an idea ! I doubt he’ll do it as his rich friends will claim it’s unfair as their kids don’t have loans because mummy and daddy are wealthy.

@Willyoujustbequiet I don’t think they care much about the room any more, it doesn’t seem to care about them.

@oddandelsewhere 😂 the grammar police are out ! I teach science and am dyslexic but thanks for the kind words.

@Needmoresleep wow, so if they scab I hope they don’t take any pay rise that the strike wins. Go to work and don’t strike. But making money out of it just smacks of greed and likely to cause a lot of v bad feeling.