To think women taking their husband’s name doesn’t have to be sexist?

[RealNavyEagle]

I know it’s a traditional thing and some people see it as outdated or patriarchal but I actually think there’s something quite nice about a whole family sharing the same name. It doesn’t feel like “losing my identity” to me, just part of building a shared one.

AIBU to think it’s not automatically a regressive choice and that it can just be a personal one?

I think this is probably correct. Historically, changing a woman’s name indicated the point at which ‘ownership’ of her transferred from her father to her husband. Some fathers hold onto the idea that they have some kind of ownership right over their daughters (while simultaneously hating women).

Boys do of course experience abusive fathers. But I think that girls are more likely to have fathers that behave in an abusive and controlling way towards them - more specifically, where abuse comes in the form of treating them as a possession (because see above - historically we were in fact regarded as our fathers’ possessions).

That’s why shedding the name that’s shared with that father might feel empowering for a woman in a way that it probably wouldn’t for a man.

So it’s slightly circular. And you can sneer if you like. But I think it’s correct to say that the difference arises from the differences in the ways that boys and girls are treated by their families and by society, and how they perceive their family names as a result.

Sorry my previous message was as a response to this one.

@LavenderHaze19 but surely if it's about shedding being a mans possession and being empowered by that - any one can change their name whenever. I don't see how only choosing to do it once you're married and taking on another man's name is empowering really.

Many women marry good men who they don’t need protection from. Plenty exist!

I am not sure anything I wrote would suggest that I would sneer at that 🤔.

Because it is another way of demonstrating how the relationship women have with their names is different to that that men have. And connected to the different status that men can have in the eyes of their father’s. I don’t think I implied that it would not feel empowering for a woman to rid herself of a name she associated with her father… just how that scenario is different for men. In general.

Which brings us back to the whole big picture not bring a level playing field for women wrt surnames.

A man could be the best man ever, doesn't mean a woman doesn't deserve her own right to hold money in a bank account to have financial freedom. What a bizarre thing to say. I take it you didn't realise all those legal protections (that you don't need lucky you!) didn't even come in to place until the last 50 years and the time you'd love to go back to is when you needed your husband's permission for anything. Did he sign off on your Mumsnet account? ☺️

I couldn't give a shit what other people think of my personal preferences.

I find this thread really interesting. I kept my name and gave my DCs my name. Their DF didn't put up much of an argument.

I had always felt it odd that women were expected to change their name on marriage and I did feel strongly about it. I probably got that from an older cousin who similarly insisted on keeping her name and her children taking her name. She set the path for us. Now almost all of that generation of female children use the family name, not a married name. (It's a pretty shit name to be honest but it's ours).

When DD1 had DGS she didn't even think about it - he has her surname.

I do believe that the more women who retain their own name -ie the one they were given at birth and lived with - then the further away we'll get from this patriarchal custom. And it is patriarchal.

Yes, of course it is. You've described it well but also its obvious. The only appropriate subject for sneering is the people who pretend this all happens quite independently of any social context or influence.

I can't say I've spoken to lots of men about it. Someone a few posts up gave their thoughts on why perhaps men dont think about changing names compared to women.

So your way is also unequal. How is a child automatically always having Mum’s surname any different to them always having Dad’s?

A believer in true equality would surely amalgamate both surnames, or make sure 1 child had 1 parent’s surname and the other child the other parent’s surname, for example.

Genuine question- why are you doing all of that?! I wouldn’t.

We discuss all decisions mutually together like adults anyway out of respect for each other. We are part of a couple and on the same team, so it’s not in either of our interests to make big decisions unilaterally. That would breed distrust and undermine our marriage. Little to do with permission, everything to do with mutual respect and consideration.

I sincerely hope we can all agree that marital rape, like any rape, should be illegal.

I don’t believe that whether nowadays or in the past the majority of women are raped within their marriage.

Many women, again whether in the past or today, actually have little interest in the workplace because these are so much happier at home pouring their talents and energies into their own husbands, homes, children and wider families. Those who want to engage with paid work should be treated equally and will of course advocate passionately for that, but it’s not a primary issue for generations of traditional women who don’t engage with it, as is their right to choose not to. It’s not the be all and end all for everyone because people funnily enough are different.

That's some major tradwife energy.

I'm not. I was referencing another poster who was revelling in drudgery.

Of course it is sexist. If it was just sharing a family name, it could be either the man or the woman's, why the man's??

I think that as a tradition, most people don't think about it as sexist or as anything, it is simply what it is, it is so normalised. I am from a country where nobody changes names when they get married and changing name sound madness to me, I wouldn't change it in a million years!!

Glad to hear it! Who wants 2 full time jobs?

Women need to stand firm:

A. Stay at home to focus on children and home (absolutely refuse to work if you are doing all of this!), DH needs to step up and provide financially.
B. Both work, both split chores.
C. Both work, outsource as much as possible.

Who says it was automatic? It was a positive choice against some opposition - more from in-laws than from DH.

And it's certainly not equal or always - most women still blindly adopt their husband's name, and then retrofit the reasons as to why they did it.

But you literally said many women within your family now give their children their surname, so if all the women continue to do that then that’s hardly equal either is it?! What is one of their DH’s does disagree, or suggest a double-barrelled surname for their joint children? That would hardly be unreasonable.

@SayItLikeItIsLetsKeepItReal

Think you missed out Option 4?

1. Dad stays at home to focus on children and home (absolutely refuse to work if you are doing all of this!), DW needs to step up and provide financially.

Yes that's definitely option 4, why should it always be that the man goes out to work.

Sure, some people do that too. Still a minority though. Most mothers still prefer to spend as much time with their children as possible, because they, you know, can do different things like breastfeeding, which no Dads, you can’t. Just basic facts and biology.

I do notice that people who have issues with SAHMs usually fall over themselves to praise SAHDs, and usually women who are nothing but negative about men suddenly like the idea of them being a SAHD after declaring they’d never be a SAHM or criticising other SAHMs. Double standards much.

If you agree it should be illegal in curious why you'd be "so happy" to go live back prior to these being recognised as crimes? Or before women had the right to not be fired for being pregnant or paid less because of their sex? You say you value people being treated equally and respectfully but you view a time when that was literally not happening through some kind of rose tinted lense.

Obviously there have been positive legal changes. However, I do think nowadays people look down their noses at mothers who are happily married, changing their name and who are happy staying at home, who actually enjoy the school holidays with their children. I am very positive and have little in common with people moaning about their other half/kids constantly. Living in the past would be great in the sense of not being constantly questioned about when are you going back to work, why don’t you use a nursery, etc. Nobody I know who works with young kids is selling it to me. I actually don’t question people about these matters themselves IRL, none of my business.