To think women taking their husband’s name doesn’t have to be sexist?

[RealNavyEagle]

I know it’s a traditional thing and some people see it as outdated or patriarchal but I actually think there’s something quite nice about a whole family sharing the same name. It doesn’t feel like “losing my identity” to me, just part of building a shared one.

AIBU to think it’s not automatically a regressive choice and that it can just be a personal one?

I think the term “Mrs” is more obviously sexist than taking the surname because it defines women by their marital status. I use “Ms” for that reason.

Might well be on the decline, I think you're right but the reality is that women who do get married still take their husband's name most of the time. And increasingly, women who do not get married, give their children the father's name - which is, ironically, a step backwards as that is not how it would have been in the past.

If changing a name really is "no big deal" as one side likes to argue, then why is it that many men are so very keen that their wives become Mrs Hisname? And why do many men feel so strongly about the children having their surname? What are they gaining here? It's obviously pretty clear to them.

It's pretty clear to me too. It's about signifying to other men that they're top of the tree, head of the family, continuing their legacy.

The comments on this thread proves nobody judges women like women. Imagine giving a shit what randomers decide to call themselves. Get a life.

Well that's up to the couple involved. If they are happy with that arrangement then what's it to us.

I haven't seen anyone judge another woman for making her individual choice.

It is about looking at society as a whole and how tradition affects our decision making.

Nothing wrong with having a think and a discussion about things.

The comments on this thread proves nobody judges women like women. Imagine giving a shit what randomers decide to call themselves. Get a life.

The irony of this. I think the most judgemental comment in this entire thread is this one!

'It is about looking at society as a whole and how tradition affects our decision making.'

It's always the same line.

I double barrelled when I got married. I go by Mrs. I'm childless by choice. I'm very non conformist in most aspects of my life. Society has not affected my decisions.

It irks me that so many women on MN don't credit other women with having the ability to make their choices without having been swayed in some way. I expect to see the 'choices aren't made in a vacuum' line next.

How so? I'm not judging anyone. I'm pointing out that women are judged by other women on this forum for the most insignificant things.

The 'If you change your surname you are upholding the patriarchy' brigade. It's lunacy.

How so? I'm not judging anyone.

Well you just told the women in this thread to "get a life". If you RTFT there's lots of posters who say that they changed their name without thinking about it and now regret it. So I think it's useful for women to be able to talk about this topic frankly, it doesn't have to be judgemental.

We've established that point. You see no value in attachment to family names nor issues with patrilineage.

I do.

But it's not a question of 'natural' as there is nothing natural about a social system set up to benefit a specific demographic.

That's fine. No one has said you're not entitled to your view. People are different.

I dont' care what women call themselves. Or their children.

I do think it's ridiculous to believe you're making these choices in a vacuum. And it's ridiculous to deny that making these choices to take your husband's name is making a choice that perpetuates the patriachy and is based on a very sexist view of the world.

Lots of us have pointed out that we've made similar choices. So it's not like we have room to judge. But we've tried to at least acknowledge what our choices mean or where they come from.

One of th ereasons I gave my children DH's name is that because, due ot th epatriachy, it had just never been a thing that I expected to have children named Queen. DH, on the othe rhand, had spent his entire life with this just basic "knowledge" that his children would have his name. Intellectually, both of us could look at that intrinsic knowledge and acknowledge it was ridiculous, but it's hard to get past 30 odd years of conditioning. I didn't care, he did. So we called the DC his name. Amusingly, DH is more concerned about how this looks than I am and has been known to tell the chidlren that when they're older, if they choose to change their names for any reason, he'll totally understand!

Well, quite. I think that's the point quite a few of us have been making upthread.

When I married and continued using my own family name I took it for granted that no one would give a monkey's. This is, after all, the default choice at least in legal terms of paperwork, proof of ID, etc. Your name is your name unless you take the necessary steps to change it.

It's fair to say that the pushback is not what I expected, nor I had I reckoned with the annoyingly sexist computer algorithms. I agree with the PP above about the 'Mrs' title, yet if you list your title as 'married' on insurance forms, etc., it's surprising how often the title will default to Mrs. Government advice forms, as well, suggested until recently that if a woman has retained her family name - to paraphrase: 'you will want to change your title to Mrs!' A lot of this is mildly amusing, but it's still indicative of the low-level sexism women navigate on a more-or-less daily basis.

I've been openly challenged on my title numerous times, because out of my work setting I used 'Ms' rather than 'Dr'. Nowadays I use 'Dr' as default because I simply want to complete my transaction and go about my day. I don't have the headspace for this regressive nonsense.

It's not every day, sure. But it's happened with surprising regularity over the course of my marriage. Another observation - purely anecdotal, not a splitting of hairs over statistics - is that the pushback has got worse instead of better with time, and it's my observation that more women of the younger generation seem to be discarding their names on marriage than in mine. In my profession it is - or was - more common for women to retain the same name throughout, and changing them was the less common option.

yes, also this.

I don't judge women who don't keep their name. I notice it but i don't judge and I wouldn't dream of ever, in a million years, telling someone that they should have kept their name. It's got nothing to do with me.

But m y god, the reverse is not true for me. As me and Serafina have mentioned a few times, as have others, the pushback I have got for keeping my name was a complete shock to me. I sort of expected a few rolled eyes (I have a reputation as someone who tends to go on about feminist issues), but I did NOT expect to be told quite so often, or by quite so many people that I was wrong, that I shouldn't have done it, that I am emasculating DH, that they were not going to call me by my name etc etc etc.

Telling people to get a life because they are pissed off over someone's choice in name isn't judgement, it's a valid observation.

Agreed @MageQueen - and I think the issues you've mentioned on this score are even more extreme than mine. But what this seems to clarify is that women who fail to take the expected option of taking on their husbands' names do face these kinds of prejudices. There also seems to have been a turnaround since the noughties away from a then-increasing trend for women to keep their own names. I'm unsure about those who hyphenate or portmanteau their names into a new one, as more couples seem to be doing. But those who do take their husbands' names don't seem to face similar pushback or prejudice. I'm talking here about day-to-day circumstances, not a site like MN which addresses women's concerns and doesn't shy from unpicking the underlying reasons why women make the choices we do.

But away from these boards discussions like this are still quite rare.

Yes, telling someone to get a life is literally passing judgement. Better to own it rather than pretend otherwise. We all judge, after all.

Who are all these people telling you this? Emasculating your husband for example is a nasty comment to make to someone!

I'm a married Ms My Name. And yes, this is one of the ways in which I make my stand against the patriarchy. I have a neutral title and my own last name in exactly the same way that men do.
Wonder what men would say if we "expected" it of them to change their name and title to reflect their marital status? We can all guess. And why would that be?!

This thread wasn't about judging individual women, it was discussing whether taking a man's name upon marriage can ever be a non sexist choice.

I don't think it can, given the whole set up is sexist. The fact that there are presumably thousands of men out there who want the same name as their kids, don't get on with their fathers, have always hated their name, find their name too boring/pedestrian, find their name too complex/difficult to spell, have no emotional connection to their name etc etc - but on the whole they don't deal address this by changing their surname to that of the woman they marry, says to me it is a sexist choice. As in, it is one that almost entirely falls on women and not men.

We live in a sexist world! Surely we can recognise and discuss this? I didn't make this particular sexist choice but am sure I've made plenty of others. It doesn't mean I'm banned from being a feminist, or a helpless trad wife, or a traitor to women - but if we can't even recognise what things are sexist and what influences them, how can we look at addressing them?

Also, if a man genuinely feels emasculated by his wife not changing her name and/or title I strongly suggest not marrying him! Totally pathetic!!

Lots of people over the years. I've mentioned a few on here already. The emasculating comment was from a "friend" of DH's (they're not friends anymore).

I made the mistake up front of putting it on facebook. I (naively) thought I was being helpful so that broader family/friends who perhaps hadn't realised I wasn't taking DH's name, would now know. That wasn't a super fun few days.

Then there was the woman at the bank who told me it was "illegal" not to be Mrs DH Surname.

The man at work who told me he didn't understand and he thought I "had" to take DH's name. And who when I explained said that he thought I was being a bit silly (or some similar comment).

The people who have, over the years, told me (or just gone ahead and done it) they will be sending christmas cards to Mr and Mrs DH name becuase they "can't remember" my name.

The man who, at a social gathering, laughed and said something like, "Oh, better be careful not to call her Mrs DH name. She might think we're all sexist pigs".

Oh, the weddings. So many weddings on the seating plan. Such a relief that the last few weddings I've been to have used first names.

The school - I don't mind a teacher on the playground, but I'm always bemused by official comms that still come to Mrs DH name. DS' secondary school is absolutely brillaint and have never done this. I love them.

Oh, that reminds me, the man who did our roof - I signed the contract, I paid the bill but the invoice was addressed to.... you guessed it, Mr and Mrs DH name. I'm not even sure how he knew DH's name.

this one was a fun one, sort of, when DH tried to call Sky to get something changed on our account. he IS listed as a secondary contact on the account. But they insisted on getting my verbal confirmation because "we don't have the same name."

Incidentally, when I travel with my children, I often have to produce their birth certificates which is fine. But I carry my marriage certificate too because I have once or twice (not often, admittedly) been asked to produce that too. I'm not really sure why it's relevant but there you go.

And my all time favourite, although I concede this was in South Africa. I went to renew my passport. In SA, if you are married, you have to provide details of your spouse. When I arrived to go through the in-person appointment (it's a thing there), they had CHANGED MY NAME. I had to go and legally change my name BACK before I could continue with my passport appointment.

Great post. Frankly I find all the relentless personal attacking between women who made different lifestyle choices to our own pointless and counterproductive. See also the million and one variations on WOHM vs SAHM and breast vs bottle, which never achieve any desirable outcome and are treadmills to nowhere. Divide and conquer, the old saying goes. I believe falling into this trap is only doing the work of the patriarchy for it. Men avoid these issues because the bulk of this work has always been supported by women: the support beings, the non-default, the alternative sex, not really autononous humans in their own right.

Every level of our society is deeply entrenched within a system designed to benefit men, so sometimes it's necessary to make decisions under those constraints to secure our own wellbeing or personal happiness. It's also largely a question of privilege - hence the increasing view of feminism as for white, middle-class women (which IMO needs addressing). I have a full-time career, because I had access to higher education. I kept my name because I didn't automatically assume I 'had' to change it - see the women upthread who did change and now regret it. For those not in that position of course it makes sense, say, if you have a disabled child, for the mother to give up work as women are consistenty paid less.

I shave/laser my body hair. Because I 'want to', because I like the feel of smooth skin, but I also know this is not a feminist choice and is guided by patiarchal assumptions as to what women should be. I diet and exercise. I can tell myself it's for my health - it is - but it's also because I've internalised cultural assumptions and don't want to look unattractive or be overweight.

We are all susceptible to this conditioning to one degree or another. Our only benefit is to explore the conditions under which we make the decisions we do. Some women may be able to resist these in some ways, others in another. Some (Afghanistan, Iran) might not be in a position to do anything - although witness the hugely brave stories of women under the Taliban risking their lives for education. They are inspiring, and reading their stories is humbling. By comparison, we in the west have things have things easier but VAWG is still a huge, huge problem. We are not going to be free of the patriarchal yoke, the only thing we can do is recognise it, fight for continued improvements in women's lot, and live our lives the best way we see fit.

But does it need addressing? If women are unhappy at changing their name and feel forced to do it against their will then yes I'd say it's of importance but otherwise I'd say if it doesnt bother the women involved and a large percentage of people probably don't even think about it then why get your knickers in a twist about it. Not everything in life has to be 50/50.

Well I guess it depends what sort of a person you are as to how much these things annoy you. Bar the South African one of course!

People telling you its illegal- surely you know they are not right in the head or not the brightest.

You will always encounter people who dont understand your life choices. Every day we can encounter people who pass comment on something we do that's different to them.