My employer said I now have to go permanent

[user1471867483]

I have been working for a not-for-profit organisation for the last 10 years on their 'internal agency' for them to save money on high street agencies. They're making cuts now and I now have to become permanent or I go with 4 weeks notice. I love being temporary. I wasn't even looking for any other work as I'd assumed I could carry on working forever like this! I will also have to change my working hours working two hours later in the afternoon and starting two hours later. It will mean I'll have to come home in the dark now. They want my answer Monday. If I'd known a few months ago, I'd have applied for temp work elsewhere, but applying/looking takes time. What do I do? Temping suits me to a tee. We have a new director now who's decided to shake things up a little in our dept. TIA.

They’ve put you on the spot. Personally I would take the perm post and give yourself a couple of months to see if it’s worth it whilst you look elsewhere just in case.

Is it an IR35 requirement?

IR35 means that if you're a contractor, bur treated as a permanent member of staff (long term, regular work, included in company All Hands/Townhalls etc.) The company is duty bound to make you a permanent employee.

This is to stop companies from using contractors as a way to avoid various taxes and PAYE.

Accept the job and start looking for another temp job now. With any luck you’ll have a new position before the nights draw in and the weather gets miserable.

Are you currently paid PAYE and have tax/NICs/pension/student loan (if applicable) deducted on your payslip before you get your money or are you paid gross money and you account for it on your self assessment?

Unless I am missing something, what difference is there in temping or being permanent? I mean, if you have worked there 10 years already then that is hardly temporary, is it?

They are trying to do the right thing, after 10 years “temping” the legal reality is you are an employee and so should be regularised in this way. If you don’t like it that’s fine but you’ll need to make the change. As pp said maybe take the contract and look for something else whilst you work.

10 years of temping, why wouldn’t you just become permanent? You’ve been incredibly lucky to be temp for this long

What benefit is it to you to be a temp? Do you regularly turn down the offer of shifts?

I cannot understand why anyone would prefer to temp rather than the security of permanent?

I can see the issue with the hours though and I would appeal that element and explain it won’t work for you but you will happily accept permanent job if the hours can remain as they have been

I'm PAYE with a pension.

It now means I can't work the hours I'm so used to and now I'll have to ask 'permission' for any holiday I want, where before I used to take off whenever I wanted as I didn't get paid! I'm also living vulnerably as I unexpectedly need to take a day off here or there if my mum becomes unwell 🤷

I see my coworkers fighting over leave at Christmas for example (as we can't leave the office uncovered), and I could never stand that kind of thing.

I would be negotiating with them. Explain your circumstances and why being temp suited you and benefitted them.
not the taking off on holiday whenever you wanted part.

See if they’ll agree to sticking with your current working hours and explain your careering commitments and look into what the company policy is for perm employees for that.

it doesn’t sound like they want to
lose you so get to find a mutually beneficial arrangement

I can see why they’ve done it, if you’re paid via PAYE and receive pension contributions you’re a permanent employee and this needs sorting out,

While you took the time off and left everyone to fight it out amongst themselves. For 10 years?

That was in response to the OPs post about taking Christmas leave.

This arrangement sounds pretty dodgy from the company’s perspective, I’m not surprised they’re having to change it. I think you’ve been lucky that it’s lasted as long as it has!

My immediate manager couldn't care less what I do as long as the work gets done. I could commit murder there and she wouldn't bat an eyelid. She's the best manager ever, but it's the new director who's questioning everyone. There's another temp in my office who's 72! She's been there 15 years. She's begged them to make her permanent, but they won't and I don't know why. So is on another banding lower than me who doesn't do 'people contact', like I have to. I think that's why I have to start two hours later and finish two hours later.

I agree they are simply acknowledging the reality of your working situation contractually. Being permanent should give you more stability. I don’t see why it needs to come with a change of shifts and suggest you discuss these with your manager, plus the fact you may need unpaid leave to look after your mum. If they’ve catered for this for the past 10 years I don’t see why they should stop now. Say yes to the change of contract (I don’t think you have much choice) and look for another job if it doesn’t work out. Good luck.

By "internal agency" do you mean that they're the ones who pay you or are you paid by an external third party?

If so you automatically become a permanent employee after 4 years so you're perm anyway. Basically all they're doing is skimping on paying you your holiday pay which is illegal.

That being said custom and practice will come into play here after 10 years so you shouldn't need to be changing your hours.

I would take the deal and see if there is room for some flexibility between you and your manager. You’re not actually a ‘temp’ now, you’re probably an employee under employment law, with your conditions being amended.

You will probably have unfair dismissal rights and other useful things that you wouldn’t have if you move to another job or true agency work.

Yes, they're the ones who've been paying me. I've been doing early hours since COVID as we weren't allowed too many in the office at that time, so we had to stagger our times and I just kept with my hours to present day. My immediate boss never challenged my hours, it's the new director. My immediate boss knows my circumstances and I asked her if I could even do just the one hour earlier, but she said no, all because of this new flaming director who's been throwing her weight around.

"I cannot understand why anyone would prefer to temp rather than the security of permanent?"

I worked with people who had 'temped' in the same place for years. For one, it was because it was difficult to get accepted as permanent there (ironic because she could obviously do the job), another was terrified of job interviews.

Some people probably don't want to be locked in by notice periods, which in some jobs are longer than they need to be for the type of job making it difficult to get any new job.

Are they offering her permanent now too? Your company sounds a bit dodgy really. It makes total sense that they put an end to this temporary stuff.

@user1471867483 , I’d try for a flexible working request on the basis of your caring obligations. They can refuse it on the basis of business needed, but if you set out in your application that you have been doing it for x years without negative impact on the business it should be hard for them to justify the business can’t accommodate you. Don’t talk about going home in the dark, it isn’t legitimate and makes you sound silly.

Surely getting home in the dark is hardly unusual?

Essentially you want the perks of permanent employment but without the commitment. Surely you can't just take off on holiday whenever you want to anyway if you are a carer for your mother?

I'd take the permanent post, and look for something else if that's what you want

"My company is now doing what it should do legally and trying to make it fair for all staff and I'm annoyed because I can't just take off when I want to any more, including sod everyone else at Christmas"
That's what it boils down to

You've happily being taking advantage and leaving your colleagues in the lurch, do what you want regardless of if it's best for the business, and now someone new has come in and reassessed they've realised what a piss take you're on and is trying to fix it