My employer said I now have to go permanent

[user1471867483]

I have been working for a not-for-profit organisation for the last 10 years on their 'internal agency' for them to save money on high street agencies. They're making cuts now and I now have to become permanent or I go with 4 weeks notice. I love being temporary. I wasn't even looking for any other work as I'd assumed I could carry on working forever like this! I will also have to change my working hours working two hours later in the afternoon and starting two hours later. It will mean I'll have to come home in the dark now. They want my answer Monday. If I'd known a few months ago, I'd have applied for temp work elsewhere, but applying/looking takes time. What do I do? Temping suits me to a tee. We have a new director now who's decided to shake things up a little in our dept. TIA.

I take it you’ll receive half the wage you’ve been used to getting as a perm member of staff?

If so you’ve had 10 years of inflated wages so be grateful.

My immediate boss knows my circumstances and I asked her if I could even do just the one hour earlier, but she said no, all because of this new flaming director who's been throwing her weight around.

It sounds like the new director is trying to rectify illegal work practices, after 10 years you aren’t a temp but by calling you a temp they don’t pay you holidays or possibly sick pay and you have no security of employment.

I don’t get the issue of going home in the dark, where I am it’s often dark by 3.00pm in the winter.

I love being temporary. I wasn't even looking for any other work as I'd assumed I could carry on working forever like this!

Erm...

You've been there 10 years. You want to be there forever. That is not temporary.

You've been lucky to have been in this grey area so long, having security of permanent but the freedom of temp. It's right that you should choose now and if you're so unable to cope with Christmas rotas then the choice is clear that you should walk away, but I'd be surprised if it's all that easy to walk into another nice secure temp gig. The idea you could've done if you'd only had a heads up seems far-fetched - and also ignores the very core of your premise. The company didn't need to give you any kind of notice... because you're a temp! If you want to be treated like a permanent employee, choose to go permanent.

can you ask for flexible working contract?

@user1471867483 i had exactly the same deal and the same situation - I went perm and it’s been two years of scrapping over any time off. Getting unpaid time off is a nightmare if you have a difficult director.

take the job (try and negotiate for your current hours or something not so bad, lay out your caring issues) and look for something more flexible.

I don’t think this is the new director throwing their weight around so much as the new director having an understanding of employment law and realising that what you’re doing doesn’t comply with the law. Plus, whilst it might suit you, it probably doesn’t suit the business (who may effectively be paying you an inflated salary if the agency is taking a cut) or your colleagues who see you doing what you want, when you want whilst they have to work as a team.
However, that doesn’t mean that you have to accept what they’re offering. It might be worth posting this in legal - or getting advice from a lawyer - as, given how long you’ve been doing this pattern for, it might be that these are deemed to be your hours and so the company may not be able to just change them. Even if they can, you could put in a flexible working request to only work a nine day fortnight with the day off being taken as needed by you rather than a fixed day or for additional annual leave. After all, you’ve proved you can do the job with these arrangements in place. Where I previously worked, we had a few established staff who had caring responsibilities and were on similar arrangements. We trusted them to keep an eye on their hours and make sure it balanced out. They rarely took a whole day off a fortnight but might take a longer lunch break a few days or leave early or take an afternoon or morning off for a medical appt.

Surely this is a benefit for you as you now get paid leave?

But yes, if you were on my team, you’d be lowest priority now for Christmas leave allocation after 10 years of having what you want.

The market is tough out there. You should take the offer while you look for alternative work. You might find there isnt much out there there will suit your hours and holiday needs.
I have been contracting for the last 4 years for various companies and have never had the kind of flexibiliy that that you are after.
I think you will be hard pushed to find somrthing again like that to be honest.

Agree the new manager sounds like she's doing things properly rather than 'throwing her weight around' and your 'best manager ever' has let things slide too long. You just want things to suit you but that's not the company's purpose, especially a not-for-profit which sounds like it's there to help it's service users. It sounds like you should probably go as you're not on board with the changes, but equally there's absolutely nothing stopping you taking the permanent role and then looking for other temp jobs. If you get on with it and are as employable as you believe, you could get another gig before the evenings darken.

After 10 years you aren’t really a temp …..

So

1. you are an employee (they pay and NI and pension you) with very very flexable working conditions (no booking needed for holidays).

2. they have no written contract with T&C for you (correct??) or what did you get when you started 10 years ago.

3. they were unlawfully not paying holiday pay.

4. your contract for your work start and finish time was established by work custom.

5. they want to change your contract and have said they will sack you if you dont agree.

6. they cant make you redundant as the role still exists.

They cant say they have a right to make you change your hours unless and until they produce a contract which has that as a term.

You can say no thanks my current contract works for me and I dont agree to any changes.

They can tell the other employee that the business need means the employee must continue to work their agreed hours (likely or unlikely). Or organise other staff to cover that change to the other employees work rota.

You can ask the director for their contract and amend it to match your current contract for start times to how quickly you book days off or that you will have fixed dates as unpaid non-work days and hand it back and start a discussion on what works for you or not.

This is the better option for you long term.

The Director is doing her job trying to sort out the mess created by others. But you are not im charge of solving the Manager/Directors understaffing and historic poor staff management problems.

Unless you go legal first you will likely be sacked (unlawfully) and then its down to what documentation they have to prove they could change your work times and holidays per T&C.

Or the Director is professional enough to carry out a legal reorganisation of the workplace with redundencies and work role changes.

Tried that but it was no.

This organisation is clearly wasting (other peoples) money by having poor employment practices. I’d have expected the temp cover to work over Christmas! The OP has a cosy job but it seems a very unfair allocation of work and expectations. Of course it should be a written permanent contract - because it is! Just not written down. Good luck to the op finding something better!

Exactly.

You've had a (very) good gig for a decade and honeslty a bit "spoiled"
I dont want to work after it gets dark, I never want to work over Christmas... its veryyyyy unusual to have these terms and Its now at an end...

Decline and try your luck in the job market (which let me tell you.... has radically changed... its brutal. Our contractors contracted 9-5 are regularly working late nights and weekend to stay in their temp role/ pray for conversion for FTE)

Or
Take the perm role and start looking for another temp role....

i find it hard to believe that you dont seem to think twice about taking time off when you need to without consideration for your colleagues
it should be give and take
and i am surprised you have got away with this for 10 years.

I agree with pp that you have to be realistic, you've had it really good for a decade - you've basically had the security and PAYE associated with a permanent job (which it probably should always have been legally) with the perks of being freelance too. That's not really fair on everyone else. The new director sounds savvy to be honest.

Legally you have exactly the same rights as a permanent employee after 10 years.

I would say happy to accept the permanent position but it's highly unreasonable to expect me to change my hours of work and I request that you re-consider that aspect, given that its been custom and practice that my current hours of work have been x to y in for z years. If they decline I'd submit a grievance and look for another job.

Or shock

The management take ownership of poor business decisions which has created the issue.

The OP is an employee in a permanent part time role.

The Director is trying to pull a fast one by saying that the business can just sack a long term employee. There is no "business need" to accept the other employees request to change their hours and then force the OP to fill the hole left behind.

The employee has no obligation to go over and above her contract.

Its is not fair to sack the employee who is doing their job per their contract just because the business failed to correctly select another employee and deployed that employee into a role that the employee could not do.

The Director needs to prove a prior contractual obligation over changing working hours or time off. If none exists and they did not follow their own HR policy its not a case that the employee can be sacked just for asking that her current contract is honored.

The Director is opening up a can of worms by trying to force the new contract rather than having an open conversation with the OP listening to her needs too.

That is why the Director is being paid a managment salary and the OP is being paid an employee salary.

Take the permanent job. Submit a flexible working request, citing your caring responsibilities. Look for another role and once you get an offer use that to either exit or negotiate new terms and conditions.

But depending on your role and skill set be realistic, if you are in the UK the job market is a bit shaky right now.

I admit, I’m with the new director. You sound like a nightmare employee, who is absolutely unmanageable.

otherwise they could just let you go surely? temporary workers no longer needed

Legally/tax speaking, the company is in a dodgy position having a "temporary" employee for over 10 years. I'm not surprised the director is taking action.

I do contact work, and since the ir35 changes, after a set time (often 2 years) the company says I have to go permanent or leave.

You've enjoyed the benefits longer than most contractors do these days. Be grateful for that.

I'd go perm and then look around for something else if you want to. I have to tell you though that the temp/contract market isn't what it was 15 years ago! In those days I could hop from contact to contact and take my choice of where I wanted to work.

Generally, when you're perm , most orgs let you take some time off for caring responsibilities. But no, you won't have the same flexibility as you once did.

It’s moving her hours by 2 hours. It’s not highly unreasonable, especially if OP is customer facing.

Custom and practice can be changed though, they’re offering her a new permanent contract, they can set any terms they like and the employee accepts that or not. As she’s on a temporary contract they can simply say the contract has come to an end.