My employer said I now have to go permanent

[user1471867483]

I have been working for a not-for-profit organisation for the last 10 years on their 'internal agency' for them to save money on high street agencies. They're making cuts now and I now have to become permanent or I go with 4 weeks notice. I love being temporary. I wasn't even looking for any other work as I'd assumed I could carry on working forever like this! I will also have to change my working hours working two hours later in the afternoon and starting two hours later. It will mean I'll have to come home in the dark now. They want my answer Monday. If I'd known a few months ago, I'd have applied for temp work elsewhere, but applying/looking takes time. What do I do? Temping suits me to a tee. We have a new director now who's decided to shake things up a little in our dept. TIA.

Yes, I can still do the hours I want, but just not at the time of day anymore.

No, I don't. Holiday pay is included in my hourly rate.

Look into dependent leave and carers leave. These should help you support your mum.

Not illegal. Not unfair.

She gets flexibility but doesn't get the security her colleagues have. No right to hours or unfair dismissal. Just different.

Will do. I haven't had a permanent job in 31 years, so there's a lot I don't know/have to get used to. Thank you for understanding; not many do (re mum). 👍

You said you have put in a flexible working request. Did you do it formally? You couldn't have done as you aren't yet employed full time. Take the job and then apply for flexible working to change you hours. - it may be your directories changing your hours because yours don't support the business need.....but if you can still do you job at different hours then they will have to consider it.
https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working/applying-for-flexible-working

So kind of you, thank you.

I temped for years (when there was plenty of temp work). I loved it, psychologically I felt trapped if I was permanent. I’d love to temp now but there isn’t anything, it’s all gone very quiet. I’ve never temped at a job for more than a few weeks though and it was when I had less responsibilities (mortgage/children). And yes to the horror of job interviews, one of the reasons I temped was to not do interviews.

I'll have to take it and still look elsewhere while I'm in work. Yes, it's a psychological thing with perm work for me. I told them I like working with 'an open door', but rules are rules I guess.

Do you not get holiday pay? I thought even if agency, you still accrue holidays? I might be wrong so don't shoot me, seems odd

I think that this is one of those scenarios where the OP needs legal advice rather than opinions and keyboard HR “experts”. The chances are that the new director has taken advice from the relevant in-house team and isn’t doing anything wrong, but it’s worth getting a proper opinion I think because sometimes dynamic and ambitious people who are brought in to “shake things up” and don’t care about ruffling feathers, inadvertently overstep the mark. Maybe the OP’s household insurance covers legal costs, but if not I think that half an hour with a solicitor could be money well spent. Or ACAS if finances are a real issue.

i dont think legal advice would cut it
she can either accept the permanent contract, or not, in which case the temporary contract will end

I get my holiday pay in my hourly rate 🤷‍♀️

I could always try ACAS.

Are you in Unison?

I believe even as a temp, as an NHS worker you can join

They offer legal advice as part of their membership

Well, neither manager has asked me my thoughts regarding whether to take the role permanent or not. Shall I wait until they approach me?

Yes, this

@user1471867483

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do, and them changing the hours to a start and finish time that are both 2 hours later is a reasonable reason to not stay. But I am confused about the 'coming home in the dark' bit... Will you be finishing at midnight now? Also, most people come home from work in the dark for about a third of the year!

Also, I fail to see how being somewhere TEN years is a 'temporary job!'

.

As you are a temp (albeit long term) are they able to just terminate your contract (no reason given), as I’d be careful about that. I think the advice to take it permanently (if you have no choice) and see how it pans out is the best advice. Temp workers can't really afford to be awkward (unless protection has changed a lot). I last temped in the mid 2000s and after two and half years was given a couple of weeks notice as they didn't need me anymore and couldn’t justify the cost.

@redfishcatSo permanent staff cannot take leave at Christmas because the bank staff refuse to cover them at this time of year? No wonder the NHS is in the state it’s in. Christmas IS holidays! So I guess expensive agency staff are brought in are they?

You've decided to take the job for now, hope you find an alternative soon.

OP you are missing the posts that are telling you that:

• you are permanent anyway because you’ve worked there so long you have all the rights of a permanent employee - this means they can’t sack you or make you redundant (as the role’s not redundant) just because you won’t sign a new contact - this deadline of Monday is fictitious
• Tge change of hours is separate to you being “made permanent”. If you have no contract and you’ve done these hours for years then those hours have become contractual via “custom and practice”. Your employer can’t just change them unless you have a contract that says they can amend the tens and conditions, which it doesn’t sound like you have. I would get some further advice on this perhaps from ACAS, or you could see if you have free legal help via one of your insurances.

So the above is what I’d initially go back to them with. They are banking on you not knowing your rights and just signing the contract. So make sure you know your rights (by speaking to ACAS and/or getting legal advice?. Focus on that first.

If it turns out that there is a way they can vary your contact (ie your hours), then you can try to negotiate at that point and then failing that put in a flexible working request, which as said above, they would find it tricky to justify not granting it as you’ve worked those hours without issue for years. But focus on what they can and cannot legally do and have those in your back pocket as a back up.

If you do need to put in a flexible working request get some advice at that point as to what to include or not include.

Beet of luck.

Unfortunately yes they can get rid of me. When I rang the office who deals with us temps, he said I'm lucky to get 4 weeks notice if I choose to go, some, he said, are let go with no notice. Anyway, neither of my managers have asked my decision, as one's off sick, the other is working at a different site. Thank you very much for your input. Very supportive! I'll ring ACAS in the morning xx

@MyLov The op is classed as a worker. She has no unfair dismissal rights. They can dismiss her by amending her contract to one she doesn’t like. They can then fill the job on their terms. She’s not an employee so has less rights. All contracts can be amended or ceased. Obviously agreement is best but the employer needs this change. Whether it’s the op that does the permanent job or someone else, it’s no great shakes but no doubt the op could be the better bet due to experience. However the job could be made redundant and changes made to a new one with a new contract. All contracts can be amended and if the op doesn’t like it, she might be let go with no compensation.

So wait, you’re a casual worker. Temp just being the term your business uses to classify you? This will all be changing anyway, sounds like new director is trying to get ahead of the game.