Termination of pregnancies - too willing to terminate, maybe there are other choices?

[Ilovepastafortea]

I have trouble with the issue of terminating pregnancies.

For context I had 5 miscarriages & 1 baby born 'sleeping' at 29 weeks.

Also 2 of my (3) husbands were adopted-well DH's mother was adopted in the 1920's. The point is if abortion was available in 1963 & 1926 neither of them would have existed. Their childless mothers wouldn't have had babies to love & care for.

If my first husband had been aborted my lovely son wouldn't exist. He killed himself at the age of 32 leaving me with a baby. But at least I had my baby which was part of him.

If my DH's mother had been aborted my 3 lovely step children & 7 gorgeous grandchildren wouldn't be here. Both of my step sons served in the Royal Navy - one in special forces & got his Green (Marine) beret. My Step daughter is a nurse & worked in A&E for many years, is now a Matron. She has saved many lives & made a difference to many other people's lives including taking unpaid leave to be there when her grandmother was dying.

But then I understand why some people do it.

I can particularly understand it if the woman has been abused or raped - who would want to bring their abuser's or rapist's child into the world. I get that.

I just wish that they would think about having their unwanted baby adopted so that someone who can't have a baby can love & care for it.

My heart goes out to those with an unwanted pregnancy & facing this.

I don't know what I'd do to be honest.

I have no doubt that most women terminate a pregnancy after much heart searching & grief. However, I also hear about women who are terminating their 3rd or more pregnancies & using it as a method of birth control.

So brings me around to AIBU to ask if people terminate a pregnancy number 3 or 4 are being unreasonable?

Or not.

Just canvassing opinions.

Yes, every case that goes to court.

Can I take that as a no, you don't have any evidence?

How rude. Yes, I do understand the word "nuance", thank you. We were asking for clarification of what nuance you think we are missing, but obviously you cannot.

Pro lifters aren't though, are they? They're not pro the life of women. Why is that?

As much as I sympathise with the pain of people who want children, but can't have them, I don't think we should be bringing children into the world who are unwanted by their mother.

I don't think we should be expecting women to risk their lives for that potential child either.

Adoption is the best outcome for a bad situation. Adoptees start out life with abandonment (I'm sorry for those who have given up a baby that that sounds harsh - I'm using it as a technical term rather than a moral judgement), which will cause issues later in life (as it does for any mammals). Manufacturing more of these circumstances is a terrible idea.

Because that's an entirely different situation.

Vaccination is a societal good - it protects babies and those who are immunocompromised by stopping the circulation of the diseases vaccinated against.

Vaccination is a small risk to yourself to prevent greater harm - both to you and others.

Abortion is a small risk to yourself, to prevent greater harm to yourself (and in many cases, to the child who you can't care for, or who may have issues that will cause great pain)

I love it when a first post nails it.

Totally right!!

I am adopted and still 100% pro choice. As early as possible and as late as necessary. I also had a termination which I don't regret, ever.

If my Mum had a termination I simply wouldn't have existed. Also, as an adoptee adoption is not the easy road - it is something that never, ever leaves you and something I am in therapy for to try to heal the damage done.

I've never had an abortion.
7 pregnancies.

First 2 I was very young. At school, horrified family, second one was worse then the first pregnancy as I was just stupid.

So obviously for me, abortion was never an option.

But what other women do, is their choice.

I don't need to understand or agree with it but ultimately its a womens choice.

In 20 years I've never been pregnant accidentally but if I had been I would have aborted. Even now in a marriage with 2 children and room and money for one I would still choose to terminate because I don't want another one. I wouldn't want to go through pregnancy knowing I wasn't going to be keeping the baby, wondering if they would find good parents and then knowing they could track me down and ask me why I didn't keep them. I can't imagine it would be nice hearing "you weren't wanted" when their full siblings were.

I wouldn't take an abortion lightly, I know I would always wonder who they could have been but it would be the right choice for me.

I'm taking reasonable precautions in order to not get pregnant and it seems to be working but accidents do happen.

Yes if my husband had been aborted I wouldn't have my kids but if I had conceived at a different time they also wouldn't be who they are now but I would have known no different.

Not allowing abortion also leads to illegal practices, women trying to do it themselves or seeking out dodgy shops.

I agree. I’ve seen posts on here claiming women should be able to abort whilst the baby is in the birth canal and one post saying she wanted a summer baby instead the timing wasn’t right but in six months perfect. I won’t lie this makes me feel sick.

When abortion was legalised it wasn’t done so women could end pregnancies on a whim, yet this is where we are and it’s why I’m against euthanasia.

The abortion on demand has increased men thinking they should have a say and not be accountable. My neighbour whose sons have got girls pregnant think men should choose after the pregnancy whether they should keep it. We need to start being responsible towards sex and its consequences of it and not use abortion this way. It often damages women’s mental health too.

Who’s benefitted the most from the pill and abortion on demand? Men as they don’t need to commit and women are expected to have casual sex, move in and not get married.

Yes of course I feel genuinely sorry for women in a vulnerable position but I do feel uneasy where this leaves society.

@snughugs do you think abortion should return to what it was pre 1967 - illegal and unsafe?

@SuchProspects
Nobody is entitled to have a baby. Adoption should be about the child and their needs , not the parents’ desire to have a perfect baby.
No woman should be obliged to continue a pregancy so that somebody gets a baby who is not tainted by SS’s involvement.
What if a woman agrees to carry a baby to term, has a healthy pregnancy, matches with adoptive parents and then the baby suffers a birth injury, which leaves them severly disabled? Should the parents be obliged to adopt the baby? If not, what will happen to the baby?

When people talk about ‘killing babies’ I tune out instantly. It’s ridiculous pro life propaganda. These people aren’t ’pro life’. They’re the ilk who stand outside abortion clinics harassing women with graphic banners. They don’t give a shit about ‘life’- the lives of women, girls or unwanted children in the care system They are bitter, misogynistic zealots.

Why does it trouble you so much what other women do with their bodies? What an odd thing to stress about!

I am very glad there are so many supportive posters on here of women who want to have an abortion. I’m also glad that women have easy access to safe abortions in this country.

But what I really struggle with though is the lack of support towards women who want to keep their babies. Abortion seems to be THE only solution to some people when a poster is in a difficult position but wants her baby.
“I want to keep my baby.”
“Oh but you really should have an abortion.”

These posters aren’t the ones who will be dealing with the aftermath of an unwanted abortion, so it’s really thoughtless and dangerous to be so invested in trying to change a woman’s decision. It’s like if a woman wants an abortion but posters pile on her to keep her baby, nobody here will be helping her bring that baby up will they?

Why does it make a difference on how the pregnancy was created?

The fact there is a foetus, and a woman has to decide to continue or not are the only things that matter.

I keep seeing this image on pro life (forced birthers) adverts and its so true

I think there’s a lot to be said for not living in an overly sexualised society where men and women are responsible for the consequences of sex. If there’s a massive statistic of pregnancies ending in abortion now, there wasn’t then as there wasn’t so much casual sex. All this casual sex hasn’t benefited women the way some people think it has. If women had the responsibility of seeing through their pregnancies they weren’t going to do it again (unless they were mad), so they certainly wouldn’t be having three or four of them.

I have sympathy for all the individual cases but it’s how it changes society as that has a detrimental effect on us all. I’m not comfortable with the trivialisation of abortion or the expectation that everything has to be perfect and women heading into their 40 before having children. There’s far worse things in the world than having children and I say that as someone who had a child on my own with no support. Life is full of curved balls and it’s how we choose to deal with them that counts.

I was surrounded by people pressurising me into an abortion, this is where we now are as a society there isn’t choice it’s an expectation and you’re selfish to continue with a pregnancy. You then have people telling you your child won’t be as good as you’re a single mother. My son attends a top university but perhaps this makes you put a lot of pressure on the child to prove others wrong and that they deserve to be alive. This is where society now is and it’s not great.

People who were not bright and reckless still had kids in 1967 and probably more so now, there’s loads more kids in the care system now due to this mentality only the kids are more damaged.

Can you explain how the abortion act has benefitted society as a whole?

I think you need to read what I was responding to for the full context of my post.
I believe in a girl's/woman's right to choose, and her decision, no matter what the circumstances. I think this has been very clear from all my posts on this thread.

No, @snughugs . There's no evidence that there was less sexual activity.
The main difference is this: pre 1967 abortions were illegal and unsafe.
After 1967, legal and safer.

It often damages women’s mental health too

This is completely untrue. The majority of women feel relief after an abortion. Stop peddling lies.

If women had the responsibility of seeing through their pregnancies they weren’t going to do it again (unless they were mad), so they certainly wouldn’t be having three or four of them

So, essentially, you think that the punishment for a woman should be a child? That's your compassionate pro-life position? That children are punishment for irresponsible women? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I felt suicidal after I had an abortion and I actually posted a lot about it on here at the time. It was horrific. I’ve had many many many PMs from devastated women in the same situation over the years too. Because they go searching for how to deal with it. So it’s not completely untrue as you say. It happens more than you probably like to believe.

I bet a lot of women probably don’t openly talk about their negative feelings afterwards because nobody will understand.

I felt nothing but relief after my abortion.

I come from a conservatve community and did not have sex till I was married. But I still believe in a woman's right to choose!

I specifically said the majority of women, and that is true.