Termination of pregnancies - too willing to terminate, maybe there are other choices?

[Ilovepastafortea]

I have trouble with the issue of terminating pregnancies.

For context I had 5 miscarriages & 1 baby born 'sleeping' at 29 weeks.

Also 2 of my (3) husbands were adopted-well DH's mother was adopted in the 1920's. The point is if abortion was available in 1963 & 1926 neither of them would have existed. Their childless mothers wouldn't have had babies to love & care for.

If my first husband had been aborted my lovely son wouldn't exist. He killed himself at the age of 32 leaving me with a baby. But at least I had my baby which was part of him.

If my DH's mother had been aborted my 3 lovely step children & 7 gorgeous grandchildren wouldn't be here. Both of my step sons served in the Royal Navy - one in special forces & got his Green (Marine) beret. My Step daughter is a nurse & worked in A&E for many years, is now a Matron. She has saved many lives & made a difference to many other people's lives including taking unpaid leave to be there when her grandmother was dying.

But then I understand why some people do it.

I can particularly understand it if the woman has been abused or raped - who would want to bring their abuser's or rapist's child into the world. I get that.

I just wish that they would think about having their unwanted baby adopted so that someone who can't have a baby can love & care for it.

My heart goes out to those with an unwanted pregnancy & facing this.

I don't know what I'd do to be honest.

I have no doubt that most women terminate a pregnancy after much heart searching & grief. However, I also hear about women who are terminating their 3rd or more pregnancies & using it as a method of birth control.

So brings me around to AIBU to ask if people terminate a pregnancy number 3 or 4 are being unreasonable?

Or not.

Just canvassing opinions.

It's absolutely fine to feel as you do. Don't want an abortion, don't have one. Every other woman has their own views and can choose for themselves. At the end of the day people will do what's right for their own circumstances and lives.

Not what I said. The whole point about pro choice is you don’t get to say this hypothetical situation wouldn’t happen therefore you don’t need to comment. You need to think do I agree with it. If the answer is no then you’re not pro choice.

Also don’t focus on one point. I would always describe my self as pro choice for years. Turns out I’m more pro life. That does not mean I’d argue or force anyone to follow my beliefs. I certainly wouldn’t be a twat about it and call someone names. But some people are just like that.

Women are NOT breeding factories for babies for the likes of you or adoption. TBH if your parents hadn’t had sex at that exact moment you wouldn’t exist either.

i think there are less traumatic means of birth control than abortion. But it’s up to the women concerned.

My sister would have had a termination in my situation. My mother in law did. I just knew in my heart I would regret it massively. I seriously don't want another baby though, if I wasn't 43 I would in a few years but thats unlikely

I am the adoptive mother of a wonderful young woman. But my gain has come at the cost of grief, loss and pain - hers and her birth mother's, in particular. It will last a lifetime. In contrast, my abortion only caused me pain, and it was much shorter and shallower than the pain caused by adoption.

I do hate the presentation of adoption as a positive outcome and abortion as a negative outcome. I think this is only true if you place no value on women's feelings or lives, or on the bond between children and their biological mothers. Adoption is often the least bad choice, but it shouldn't be promoted as desirable.

The press never really focus on the fact the UK (and probably elsewhere), 9 out of 10 terminations that take place are before 12 weeks, with most being between 6 and 9 weeks.

Also the recent case of Preston Davey. Absolutely horrific. He was sexually abused by his two new "Dads", and died of his injuries. 13 months old. How the hell were they approved for adoption? Also, the teacher half of the couple has been suspended on full pay since the murder investigation started. I suppose that money has gone, I wonder if they get legal aid?

Sorry, nothing to do with abortion, but just agreeing adoption isn't always rosy.

If you have data to show that most pro-life people are against subsidised healthcare, I would be interested to see it.

The Republicans.

There. That's the argument. And the data.

No, you are making up absurd what ifs to create whataboutery. Again, it doesn't exist, it wouldn't happen. It would NOT happen. You know it, I know it. It's pointless whataboutery to muddy the waters.

How true is the narrative that there are large numbers of wonderful infertile couples desperate to adopt? With the Leiland-James Corkhill case I remember thinking, "really? All these people desperate to adopt and those two were the best they could find?"

There aren't huge swathes of people waiting to adopt, and there aren’t huge swathes of children waiting to be adopted either. The vast majority of children in care are either reunited with their families or placed in kinship care.

Adoption is great, I have two fabulous kids through adoption but it’s not for everyone. Even children removed at birth experience significant trauma, and adoptive parents need to know how to support them. We’ve moved far in our understanding of adoption and what adoptive families need.

In any event, even if everything in the adoption garden was as rosy as it could be, we don’t use women as incubators for people who want children but can’t conceive.

A single sperm has the DNA to say whether it's male or female. Cancers have their own DNA too. So does tapeworm. So what's your point?

And no, it is not necessarily the 'correct' view point.

@thismummyslife If you're pro forcing a woman to risk her health in pregnancy and her LIFE in childbirth, you're not pro-life. If you defend forcing a woman into Gestational Slavery, you are not pro-life. If your beliefs and edicts would see a woman die in a botched back yard abortion or that woman throwing herself down a flight of stairs in utter desperation, you are not pro-life. If your belief and edicts would see a woman risk rupturing her bowel or uterus with a coat hanger out of utter desperation, you are not pro-life. You're pro-death. In fact, it's the pro-choicers that are pro-life.

@FeistyCat 👏

Part of the problem is youve formed these opinions through ‘hearing about stuff’ rather than looking at the actual data, exploring the reasons women have abortions and when they have them. ‘Using it as birth control’ is vanishingly rare.

You also need to look at the resources available to mothers putting babies up for adoption and for adoptive families in supporting their children before you decide adoption is even a viable option let alone a great one.

Abortions that people find ‘distasteful’ (the mythical ‘don’t fancy a baby’ at 24 weeks or any other reason people deem not valid) are a downside of legal abortion. But the alternative is incomprehensible in a civilised society.

Amoebas and viruses are 'life' too. So are bugs and cockroaches. So is tapeworm. So is cancer. Not every 'life' is equal to others. A born actual woman's life has far more worth than a blastocyst or embryo with no brainstem, no nerve receptors and no sentience.

You literally* just gave your opinions here - *I'm pro-life, you can’t say anything on here about it because you have a load of others jumping down your throat, being pro-life now is a dirty word, but I see where you’re coming from OP..

To some people, though, the woman's life is worth less than that. She should have no control, no agency. She should be nurturing and self sacrificing, no matter what the situation, and shamed if necessary. Distressing though it is, this also seems to apply to girls and women who are the victims of rape. They must carry it to term, no matter what. That's what "pro Life" appears to mean.

The majority of women who have abortions have already had children.

So you're demonstrably wrong.

How many children have you adopted OP?

This is only going to go one way OP, vast majority here are incapable of nuance

What "nuance" are most people here "incapable of"?

What nuance are we all missing in this situation?

Recently a law has just passed to decriminalise a woman who aborts after the time frame stipulated. I agree with this, however I also agree any medical profession who helps her should face charges. This law was passed for exactly your whataboutery “which would never happen.”

Also remember the law allowed up to 28 weeks not so long ago.

Do you agree there should be a time limit. Or are you going to post another rant to avoid answering?

You’re quite a ranty poster so I assume I can foresee your answer.

If you don't want to have an abortion, good for you. But it's frankly none of your business whatsoever whether another woman does - not everybody sees it as a big deal whatsoever. I have had one and I'm going to be honest here, it was an extremely easy decision as it is for many women.

If your pro choice then it means a woman can say at 38 weeks at 40 weeks. I want an abortion and you support it. You don’t get to say I’m pro choice unless this happens. You say it you own it.

No it isn't because NO WOMAN is going to go through woman would go through 38 weeks of; weight gain, back aches, blood pressure, nose bleeds, Hyperemesis and possible hospitalisation, gestational diabetes, pelvic inflammation and preeclampsia - all of that for 38 weeks, just to.... suddenly.... change their mind. That would not happen, and you know it!

Women can drink whilst pregnant and abuse their bodies whilst pregnant. You’re pro choice so again you’re ok with this because it’s her body.

On the contrary, we'd prefer she'd terminate. It is you that if you are anti abortion you are saying you are ok with the woman who doesn't want to be pregnant drinking and abusing her body.