Termination of pregnancies - too willing to terminate, maybe there are other choices?

[Ilovepastafortea]

I have trouble with the issue of terminating pregnancies.

For context I had 5 miscarriages & 1 baby born 'sleeping' at 29 weeks.

Also 2 of my (3) husbands were adopted-well DH's mother was adopted in the 1920's. The point is if abortion was available in 1963 & 1926 neither of them would have existed. Their childless mothers wouldn't have had babies to love & care for.

If my first husband had been aborted my lovely son wouldn't exist. He killed himself at the age of 32 leaving me with a baby. But at least I had my baby which was part of him.

If my DH's mother had been aborted my 3 lovely step children & 7 gorgeous grandchildren wouldn't be here. Both of my step sons served in the Royal Navy - one in special forces & got his Green (Marine) beret. My Step daughter is a nurse & worked in A&E for many years, is now a Matron. She has saved many lives & made a difference to many other people's lives including taking unpaid leave to be there when her grandmother was dying.

But then I understand why some people do it.

I can particularly understand it if the woman has been abused or raped - who would want to bring their abuser's or rapist's child into the world. I get that.

I just wish that they would think about having their unwanted baby adopted so that someone who can't have a baby can love & care for it.

My heart goes out to those with an unwanted pregnancy & facing this.

I don't know what I'd do to be honest.

I have no doubt that most women terminate a pregnancy after much heart searching & grief. However, I also hear about women who are terminating their 3rd or more pregnancies & using it as a method of birth control.

So brings me around to AIBU to ask if people terminate a pregnancy number 3 or 4 are being unreasonable?

Or not.

Just canvassing opinions.

Yes. Abortion is an alternative to pregnancy. It's not an alternative to adoption. A woman who has an abortion does not want to even be pregnant. Telling her to continue the pregnancy when she doesn't want to, to give it up for adoption is pointless.

The only other choice for not wanting to be pregnant, is termination.

There is no such thing as abortion at 38 weeks. That's going to be a live birth or a natural stillbirth, not an abortion.

But it’s still a termination of pregnancy? I don’t understand your distinction. Very rarely a termination has to be performed very late in pregnancy due to disability, etc, and that’s still an abortion not a natural stillbirth. The baby’s heart is stopped and then it’s delivered dead. I suppose you could call that a ‘stillbirth’? But it’s not a natural stillbirth.

I don’t know anyone who has had a termination that late but I do know someone who had one late in pregnancy due to a severe disability. They refer to it as a termination for medical reasons not as a stillbirth.

The pregnancy being wanted or not makes the difference. That should be pretty easy to understand, surely.

Exactly. Also "better childcare" isn't going to persuade a girl or woman who has been raped to continue with the pregnancy.

Exactly this.

The OP has had multiple marriages. I can't help but judge that.

Yeah but you can say that about women who are on their third marriage (providing they didn't lose both husbands to death).

How true is the narrative that there are large numbers of wonderful infertile couples desperate to adopt? With the Leiland-James Corkhill case I remember thinking, "really? All these people desperate to adopt and those two were the best they could find?"

Not read the whole thread and I’m sure someone will have beaten me to it but I came here to say if you don’t believe women were having abortions in the 1920s and 60s you’re very naive. They just died having them.

abortion is healthcare.

Agreed.

The point is if abortion was available in 1963 & 1926

How did I miss this? Do you honestly think abortion has only been in existence for around 20 years or so?

Abortion has been around since civilisation began. It is even mentioned in the BIBLE. And how to procure one.

Have you never heard of 'coathangers'? That is how woman got rid of their own foetus before abortion was legal. Or back alley abortions. Women DIED in Sepsis Wards from back alley abortions. Desperate women would throw themselves in a lake, throw themselves down a flight of stairs, drink pesticide, concoct old wives tales recipes to drink to get an abortion, or pay back alley 'doctors' or 'MDs'. Like Penny did in the movie Dirty Dancing. That you think abortion didn't exist pre 1963 (ironically the date Dirty Dancing is set in) shows you must be very young, perhaps a teenager and have no knowledge that abortion is as old as prostitution (the oldest profession in the world) and has been performed since the 1700s and even Biblical times.

Thank you, @FeistyCat . To repeat; you can't ban abortions, only safe ones.

One would have to be an imbecile to think a woman would go through 35 weeks of; weight gain, back aches, blood pressure, nose bleeds, Hyperemesis and possible hospitalisation, gestational diabetes, pelvic inflammation and preeclampsia - all of that for 35 weeks, just to.... suddenly.... change their mind.

Get real!

NO ONE chooses to have an abortion at 35 weeks unless the baby has severe abnormalities incompatible with life (and the mother still has to go into labour and deliver the dead baby anyway, so they still have to give birth!!).

NO ONE! It simply does not happen.

For heaven's sake please don't tell any women you know who have had a miscarriage that her "mind and body worked in concert" to make it happen for the best.

Because you will probably end any positive relationship you have with her and wound/upset her deeply.

Also what you've said just isn't true. Yes it is true that some embryos are lost because of genetic abnormalities incompatible with life but this is not the case all of the time. Clotting problems, infectious illness, other critical illness in the mother, physical trauma, issues with the cervix - these can all cause (potentially preventable) miscarriage of perfectly healthy embryos who otherwise would have gone onto to the birth of a live baby.

If you don’t want to have an abortion don’t have one. Leave the rest of us to make our own choices.

Adoptees will know it's only the truth.

And adoption causes heartache all round. For the mother who had to give the baby up. For the child-turned-adult wondering why their mother didn't want them, to the adoptive couple who knows their adopted child could go looking for their 'real' parents and leave them behind. Not forgetting the child yelling at their adoptive parents 'you're not my real mum!' during a parent-child dispute.

I think adoption causes more trouble and heartache than it's worth. There is even a group on facebook for 'adoption survivors'. Those adults are not happy they were adopted.

I genuinely think termination is better than adoption and causes less heartache and pain all round.

So the answer is for orphanages to come back? Adoption is not an easy choice. Several good friends have adopted and those children have came with lots of baggage.
Termination was something that used to horrify me, but as a mid 40's with kids I definitely don't want any more. I can't afford any more! So if that situation cropped up, I'm afraid I'd have to consider that. How dare you try and dictate what other people should do in such stressful, emotional situation.

The care system in the UK cannot cope with the numbers of children awaiting adoption OP. Would you like to add more vulnerable kids to their numbers.

Im from Ireland and grew up surrounded by the strange logic you put forth in your OP. It doesn't stand up, and sadly we have shockinging recent evidence of what happened to babies born outside marriage/circumstances considered ideal, and to their mothers. Being matched with lovely loving families was not the typical outcome.

Because a previous poster said this (about lack of childcare and support) and said they couldn’t afford that and no that no one was doing anything to improve this

Lots of pro-choice and fake posts on the board yesterday.

I am so sorry about your lost babies.

But this has nothing to do with anyone else’s choices or circumstances.

Nothing.

And people are not obliged to go through pregnancy and birth to address other people’s desire for a baby via adoption.

I I had not had sex, my Dc would not exist.. if I had not used contraception countless other babies might exist.

Non logic.

Women need domain over their own bodies.

I briefly considered a termination when I got pregnant by accident aged 42 last year, I knew deep down I wouldn't have gone through with it despite feeling another baby would probably break me. Im glad I had my son as he is an absolute delight, the apple of my eye and everyone adores him

Everyone has their own stories.

I got pregnant very unexpectedly in my later fertile years, I already had children, including one with a complex disability, and I knew immediately I would terminate.

The relief was immense.

I have never for a moment regretted my choice. I am SO glad I didn’t have another child (and the idea that a better alternative would have been adoption - putting my body through a pregnancy and labour, the trauma of giving up a child, what it would done to my family to go through all of that - is preposterous).

If you think it's ethically better to pressure pregnant women to gestate and birth babies who can then be handed over to other couples (often paying large amounts in "fees" in the US) than to abort I don't really know what to say. I think it's vile personally.

Exactly. I have 3 children, the youngest is disabled. There is absolutely no way I could have coped with the baby I found myself pregnant with after a contraception failure. I couldn’t have coped with pregnancy and birth while caring for my youngest, either. I had a termination and have never had a single minute of regret.