So fed up with live-in landlords

[EternalLodga]

I live in a city where rent is so high many of my friends and I are forced to be lodgers. There are SO MANY live-in landlords who are so unsuited to this gig.

I actually wonder whether there's a generational factor at play here: maybe they have never had to co-live and be on the back foot, as they basically take hefty rent off you and do whatever the hell they like.

My landlord just announced his daughter is going to spend 3 months in the spare room. Okay?

A friend of mine, on the day they moved into the house, the landlady had a party (the move in day was established weeks in advance).

They make a load off your back while also trying to rope you into doing deep cleans of their house while monopolising the communal areas.

In my experience and much to my surprise, the worst ones have been the most vocally left wing. Ive been trying to put my finger on why that is (im left wing myself) and I think its because they actually feel embarrassed about what they're doing, so their boundaries are completely fucked. Whereas the less "bleeding heart" ones see it as a simple transaction where you uphold your end, they uphold theirs.

One landlady actually told me when I could shower "to save on electricity bills". Honey, I pay you 800 quid a month: ill shower when I like??!

Sorry for the rant but im so sick of totally inappropriate people stepping into this role.

Really? You're at a loss as to why having 3 people using the kitchen and bathroom etc as opposed to 2 might change things?

You dont understand how going from sharing with one person to sharing with a father and daughter duo might imbalance the dynamic even further?

I thought the terms were ‘homeowner’ and ‘lodger’

www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home

I don’t have a problem with the term landlord, as that is what they are. I think it’s more how you turned it to say you are sick of live in landlords rather than just saying you are sick of being a lodger. Most people can sympathize with being a lodger I think but it’s unrealistic to expect the change of dynamic that you want. Hope you manage to get a flatshare or something else soon!

But being a homeowner doesn't imply that you have a lodger...

Landlord/landlady has been used to mean someone that rents property for as long as I can remember. My friends mother was landlady when we were in school 40 years ago, because they had a lodger.

Nope, at least not where I live as there are about 20-25 people for each one rental. Renters/lodgers, particularly those who can't afford a whole one-bed flat on their own, have to often take whatever is on offer. So many places are also advertised on sites like spareroom with a 'live-in landlord' or 'hourshare with owner-occupier'

I don't get this. Isn't the whole point of lodging that its typically cheaper because lodgers have fewer rights? As a lodger you aren't a tenant (as you would be in a shared rental flat/house) so dont have:

• exclusive possession, even of your own room
• tenants rights/protections
• protection from eviction etc

OP, being a lodger can be the absolute pits, but if you want to be treated like a tenant then be a tenant.

I guess what im wondering is why you wouldn't just treat your lodger like its a houseshare. I know there is a difference in legal status, and that's reflected in eg notice that can be given. Im not talking about the legal requirements here. Im just talking on a human level. I don't understand why you would choose to share your home with someone and not treat them like an equal.

Because in relation to the property, they are not one. They have not invested any money to buy it and have few rights over it. The only reason the landlord allows them access at all is to earn money. Its not like living with friends or housemates who choose to share a property with equal rights.

Nobody is disputing that.

Im not disputing live-in landlords' rights to kick you out whenever they fancy.

Im not complaining about the legal imbalance.

Im complaining about how SOME live-in landlords seem to show you a basic level of disrespect completely separate from their legal entitlements.

Yes, I'm at a loss why you feel so surprised and aggrieved by this addition. if you are lodging in someone's home, then it's not entirely inconceivable that the composition of said home may change over time. They may allow other family members, guests or other lodgers to move in or out. That was certainly the case with a few friends I had who lodged when younger - and they knew this was just part and parcel of lodging.

Luckily, i this case, it appears to be a temporary arrangement. Of course the home owner's daughter's presence may change the dynamic of the set up. But that's a risk you taken when you sign up to lodge in someone else's home.

I don't think you sound like you're suited to lodging (small blame there, I don't think I would be either). It's good that you're in the market for buying. Just grit your teeth and hopefully it will be over sooner rather than later.

I totally get you OP. I had a live in landlord like this I stayed with for a few months just before the pandemic started in south London.

She was brilliant, so considerate - her and her boyfriend would be really mindful about not hogging the kitchen and living room. It was an unspoken rule but it pretty much worked out that they would use it one day, then I’d use it the other day and occasionally we would chat together. And we would often make coffee for each other and sit and have a chat!

We had a rota for cleaning the communal areas every other week, and we both kept it super clean and tidied up after ourselves as we went along anyway.

I have also lived with the kind of “live in landlord” you have now but they didn’t own the property - they rented the whole place out and then sub-letted it to me. So it was a similar dynamic. It wasn’t cheap at all and they were very inconsiderate and took the piss.

One woman used to frequently leave her dishes in the sink for 3 days but then complained about me leaving a few crumbs on the worktop once for an hour. By the time she sent her passive aggressive text about it I’d already cleaned it up. I only didnt do it immediately as I was doubled over with period pain.

She complained about me washing my breakfast bowl at 7:30am as she said it woke her up despite her being in the living room which was next to my bedroom until midnight and me not complaining although I was in bed by 11pm. The funny thing is I remember that day hearing her alarm go off while I was in the kitchen washing my bowl - so she was clearly meant to wake up around that time anyway!

Had another one who was always in the living room with his girlfriend all
weekend and would leave a huge mess before he went on weekend trips. He soon got the picture that I wasn’t about to clean up after him though.

I also have a friend who is a terrible live-in landlord and she knows I think this - she had her mum move in her bedroom, so she was sleeping on the sofa in the (communal) living room for 3 months! I asked her what her lodger thought of it - she kind of laughed and said who cares.

I live on my own now in a 2 bed flat and it’s bliss! I hope you can get out and escape the lodger life!

That's the thing, lodger rent is not cheaper at all. This live-in landlord wants to have their cake and eat it too

No it’s not the not the term. They are not a landlord and you are not a tenant .
You are a lodger and they are the home owner.

These are not just random words, they actually have a meaning in law.

You sound rather fragile if you think that people who disagree with you are “triggered “. I suspect you are going to find it tough here on Mumsnet.

I think YABU to be honest and I am really not a landlord fan. Lodging is renting a room in someone else’s home. It is not a joint tenancy where you share the whole house as equal to the homeowner - though yes there are usually agreements about use of common areas. But it remains the homeowner’s property and if they want to rent another room to someone else or move a family member in then that’s part and parcel of what you accept as a lodger. As someone else has mentioned if you want the security and freedom of your own place you need to get together with friends and rent a house together.

Im complaining about how SOME live-in landlords seem to show you a basic level of disrespect completely separate from their legal entitlements

But it isn't disrespect to do exactly as they please with the property they own. The point of lodging being that you can simply move out with few restrictions. If you don't like it move out?

Don't know how many times I have to repost this link but here goes. They are landlords. The government calls them landlords. A homeowner ks just a person who owns a home.

https://www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home

Thank you. I buy cleaning supplies and things like toilet roll but she buys her own personal toiletries eg shower gel. I used one of her eggs once, which she said was fine. She used my cooking oil when hers ran out. She has broken the odd glass but I just replace things with cheap Asda stuff so it doesn’t really matter.

I think we are both respectful of each other. She is lovely with my son as well. He has always lived there and didn’t just appear.
I am doing this as I need the money but I do actually think it’s good for my 16 year old to meet different people and learn to be respectful of how different people live.

I don’t think you should be told to deep clean communal living areas. If you wanted to fine but ultimately that’s up to you if you wanted to do it.

I also have a lodger, they have their own floor/bathroom and I only ask them to clean their space and any mess they make in the kitchen or elsewhere. I do all the cleaning and I buy all the cleaning products, including TP and laundry stuff, for the house. I would not move people in on a semi-permanent basis and I have minimal house guests but not none.

We have an agreement that we both sigh and stick to. If you do have this and the landlord is in breach of it then I agree with you it’s unfair. But without knowing the terms, it’s hard to say. And whatever you signed up for is what you should also do - doesn’t matter what others ‘expect’, it only matter ms what is signed and agreed.

@EternalLodga Glad to hear that you're getting your own place and getting out of this situation.

@diterictur is right though that there are advantages too.
You don't have to worry about bills - it is all inclusive
You don't have to worry about any of the house/bill admin
Usually much better maintained than a typical rental
Cheaper
Shorter notice period/more flexible than a standard tenancy.

All of the above are great in this era of rising utility rates. But the cleaning expectations seems ridiculous, your landlord wants a free cleaner! He does have the right to have his daughter stay for as long as he wants though, it won't affect your costs as you're paying a set amount for bills.

They’re not a house guest, they pay to live there and should have rights and a say over things like this. Just like the house owner would. It’s hugely inappropriate to announce it and not check whether it’s ok.

Yep, I never paid less rent as a lodger!

And I don’t know if it’s the the formal/legal term is but live in landlord is very much the term that is used on flatmate/renting websites such as spare room or gumtree and mostly everyone I know would know what I meant by using that term.

And these “live in landlords” usually advertise their spare rooms like a flatshare and in many cases don’t even use the term “lodger”, which is why I didn’t realise that’s what I was initially when I was new to renting in London. Some do treat it like a houseshare, and things feel equal (although of course legally they still that the various rights landlords have) others threw about their power and showed no regard for you by imposing random rules on you all the time. And having double standards.

But this is a lodging situation. Most people understand that lodging is a specific relationship where you have few legal rights to the property but lots of flexibility and it’s pretty well documented in popular and literary culture that the norm is the landlord in a lodging property has ultimate power in the dynamic…

Sounds like you’re most put out by another female, who is closer to your “live in landlord”coming to disrupt the harmony you’re curently enjoying. I mean why aren’t you thinking - oh it might be less awkward there being his daughter there? And surely there are worse people you cld be sharing with? You’re very resentful but seem incapable of appreciating that without your live in landlord you’d have nowhere to live.

thats just funny. everything you've written. why not pretend your burger is a steak,