Struggling with the age gap

[Whatdoidotoday]

I need some advise because I’m losing it.

I have a 9yo and 2.5yo and I’m losing my mind. Dh is away for work for a while and usually we struggle through it together but I am just overwhelmed now.

The age gap means that there is not one activity/ event / anything that I can do with them both.
another huge issue is that both of them are children who cannot do a single thing on their own for one second

DS9 now gets a punishment for not occupying himself as I’m sick of it. He will not do any clubs so just wants to be home. But at home he is just hanging on to me constantly/ moaning/ complaining. I had such a bad experience to motherhood as he was such a Velcro child. We eventually sent him to nursery at 14m every day even though I am a sahm. He is a little better now but if you don’t tell him what to do, he can’t keep himself busy for long.

DD is an even worse child. Just constantly wanting to be on top of me. I sit down start an activity, play for 20min and walk away for 5min and she just cannot occupy herself. Constantly wants you right next to her doing the thing for her. I’m so sick of them. I’ve watched friends and they can get busy with something in the same room and their kids play/ do something independently. A few friends have even commented on how needy they are - I’m not offended because I fully agree. My toddler is at nursery every day but just for a few hours and I’m waiting for a space for the full day.

Im so worn down. I regret being a sahm. I regret being at home for them as they have turned out to be the most dependent, needy, and unable to do anything for themselves children.

im sure reading this sounds awful but I’m just burnt out.
my dh is amazing and so hands on and also agrees that our kids are incredibly hard work.

what do people do to get their kids independent.

@EllatrixB The 2.5 year old maybe but the 9 year old yes that’s very unusual and ridiculous. And if she doesn’t get a handle on the younger one she’ll have the same issues as they get older

I think there has been lots of good advice on this thread that I hope you can take from. Like a lot of others, I'm confused as to why you want to continue being a SAHM and not return to work. There are hundreds of jobs that are not the full time "brain-drain" corporate jobs you had before. You say you became a sahm to enjoy the time with your kids however you clearly resent your children and don't actually enjoy spending time with them to the extent as toddlers they were/are in childcare every day so you can get away from them. This isn't a dig from me, I'm a big nursery fan and couldn't hack being a sahm myself but the difference is you are a choosing to be a sahm with the deluded belief its benefiting your children when it is very clear it isn't nor is it benefiting you.

As someone said, I wonder if with your kids that they haven't been given the space or independence to learn to play or entertain themselves independently. Your toddler is still a little but a 9 year old should be able to go to sleep by themselves and entertain themselves without constant input from a parent. Being bored isn't a harmful or bad thing for kids, in fact it is a useful part of their development to help them entertain themselves and become creative. If he's never had this opportunity and you've always just given into constant demands for attention then its no wonder they are so clingy.

You and your husband I think desperately need to work on boundaries and supporting your eldest in becoming more independent and resilient. I'm not saying ignore them and of course they need 1:1 time with parents but I don't think it needs to be as intense as it all sounds. You should be encouraging them to join clubs and activities and interact with their peers.

*Our DD who is 9 needs one of us with her until she goes to sleep. I think the PP saying just leave him, don't lie with him, don't really understand that some children just need this. They can't help it, it isn't the parents' fault. They need it to feel safe. And if they don't feel safe they can't get to sleep. So we have no evening together. One of us stats with her until usually 10pm (as it's light so late) when she finally drifts off. The other one does the dishwasher/other jobs, then it's bed for us too. It's rubbish but we have accepted it now as we have tried everything under the sun. We have seen the distress all these efforts have led to, because she just doesn't feel safe left alone. Yet.

In our case it's because she has ADHD and really struggles to switch off, but I think there is also an underlying almost subconscious or unconscious fear of going to sleep, of giving in to her body's demand. Knowing that when she is asleep she is alone.*

We could have written this. The only difference being my daughter is 8. We've tried to get her sleeping independently since she was a baby. I don't think a lot of people understand unless they've been there. I was the same as a kid and eventually outgrew it (by 10ish).

Certainly for the younger child here, it's very normal to still be lying with them at 2.5. but 9, not so much but nowhere near as unheard of as people on here seem to think. As I said, my daughter struggles in this way and I know at least 3 friends of hers whose parents lie with them whilst they go to sleep.

OP, I think you need something else in life so you don't feel like you're just existing. You have a few pockets of time in the week which you could fit a hobby into - you're lucky in that way (my similar pockets are filled with work).

We use timers a lot, reward jars, set a 'challenge' for 10 minutes etc.

I don't think your eldest is necessarily too old for soft play btw. There's also swimming, going for a bike ride/scoot, find a different playground etc. I'd also be inviting a friend with him if he might be bored with the toddler.

Or maybe she’s at the end of her tether and asking for help and support?

Both of mine have always struggled to switch off for bed and how that works and like you for awhile I was the crutch that helped them settle but in the long term it just isn’t feasible.

talk to him figure out what would help him to get to sleep that isn’t you and create a routine.

because it does need his input because both of mine are very different.

DD likes to read then she wants complete darkness with no windows open and a record playing on her record player right by her bed - it isn’t her phone (no electronics in her room) and it automatically stops at the end of the vinyl and she can switch it back on if she needs it. This is her environment

DS total opposite - showers before bed to relax needs windows open, fan on in the heat and door open with hallway light on. Needs (and although not ideal) the tv on to fall asleep (again this is programmed so it turns off after 45 minutes) with a particular football match on (before it was general things but this works well).

they are 16 and 12 and have worked out their sleeping patterns and time then need to sleep and wake up as well

talk with him to work it out

When are you going to stop lying with your 9 year old till he falls asleep?

When he starts secondary school?

When he's a teenager?

It's irrelevant really, because you'll still be lying with the younger one for years, by the sound of things.

Be firm. Just leave them. Nothing bad will happen. I have to say that I'm puzzled by people saying it's normal to lie with a toddler while they fall asleep. It really, really isn't.

I never lay down with any of mine, including the autistic ones. I'm taking from babyhood. You must get babies used to dropping off on their own.

Are you still a SAHM op? Are you getting to rest when they're at school/nursery?

Your 2 year old sounds completely normal tbh, they're a toddler! All children are different, but I'd class thay behaviour as the norm for most of them! Your 9 year old however shouldn't be this clingy, and should be able to do activities independently. Is there any neuro diversity? Rather than punishing him, have you tried to have a little calm chat with him about how he is feeling, and gauge why this behaviour is happening? I know when one of mine was this way for a spell of time, it was because I was unwell and he thought he would lose me.

Don't punish the 9 year old OP. I Understand your frustration but this is OTT. I have a similar age gap and two very needy kids. Get the older one to plan activities for the younger one. Involve them both in chores - yes everything will take lots longer my mine loved mopping and 'cleaning windows'. Go out lots to break the day up. It's hard but it'll get easier. Good luck.

our kids are probably one of the very few where both parents attend all school events, weekends revolve around them, we give each of them a good solid block of individual quality time daily, but it’s just never enough.

I've just read through the thread and this part I feel where is where half your problem lies. Your children have been by the sounds of it brought up with everything having revolved around them and by the sounds of it getting what they want. Children need to learn that they are part of the family unit, not centre to it. They need to learn that other people and their parents needs and wishes are just as important as theirs.

You do not need to dedicate every single waking moment to your children for them to have happy and secure childhoods. Yes they need 1:1 time with parents but this doesn't need to be masses of time every day. They don't need entire weekends to revolve around them. I clearly remember weekends spent going round shops and DIY stores etc with my parents and having to entertain myself if my parents had housework or jobs to do around the house or if they had friends round. You complain your children constantly want more and want your attention but it appears they've been brought up to know to expect everything to revolve around them and to never ha e to entertain themselves. It isn't a skill they can suddenly learn and is going to take hard work on you and your husbands part.

I think you and your DH need to discuss how you want family life to look like as whatever vision you have and what you are doing isn't working at the moment. It sounds like you have no balance in your life. Do you ever get time away at a weekend or time with friends on your own? Time away from your childen and spending it with friends/husband is important and would help you feel more balanced. Your children also need to see you are a person in your own right. Your 9 year old also sounds like he needs to spend more time with his peers to help both his social and emotional development.

This is actually quite sad. I am trying not to be horrible as I can see you are struggling but it sounds like you put your oldest in nursery 14 month old in nursery despite being a sahm because you couldn't cope. Your 9 year old is now at school full time and your 2.5 year old in nursery every day and you would like her to be full time. But you don't want to go back to work, at the point you aren't actually spending your time caring for your children and it is unusual to have 2 children both in full time nursery at a young age when you do not work.

It sounds like you have realised parenthood is not for you and unfortunately your children are becoming more needy as they can sense your resentment and have not spent as much time with you from a young age despite you being at home.

It might be best for everyone if you either go back to work full time and let your husband be a sahp. Or leave and seek mental health support, you are not doing yourself or your children any good by continuing like this.

Having re-read the thread I'm confused as well as to how the OP describes herself as a SAHM and regret of "being at home" for them when her eldest was in nursery every day from 14 months and she's currently waiting on a full time place for her children.

I'm all for using childcare and to get a break too, but the OP can hardly call herself a SAHM if her children have been in nursery every day from a young age, then say she's been at home for them when she sees them just as much or even less than parents that work.

I maybe take back some of what I wrote earlier. I can understand the clingyness and bedtimes wearing you down, but it's not like you are at home all the time with them or working full time and coming from work and dealing with them. If you're kids are at school and nursery every day, you should be getting ample time to yourself to rest and recharge.

Kids don't automatically know how to play ime, either alone or with others. They develop those skills but often need guidance from parents.

What do you have at home for them to do, OP? I have a friend with two very clingy kids (at least, that's how she describes them), but I've been to her house a few times with my own kids and imo the kids are anxious and bored. My friend is lovely, but she's an admitted clean freak and there is very little for the children to do in her house. And she becomes very anxious when they do anything that might make a mess, so lots of shouting to keep their clothes clean etc. In the end, the kids just end up watching silly videos on someone's phone to keep them quiet and so I've resolved to limit visits in future as I find them too stressful. But add to that a fair amount of family disturbance over the past few years, and I'm not surprised her children are constantly clinging to her and acting out. They need emotional reassurance and they need stuff to do. They come to our house (which is a constant mess) and potter around relatively happily doing activities which are meant for much younger children, like play-doh and Happyland toys. My friend sits there apologising to me about the mess they're making and worrying about their clothes.

How much time do you spend playing, OP? With both of mine, I've done a lot of parallel play - setting up an activity, doing it alongside them for a bit and then quietly retreating. I find that works better than just expecting kids to go and play.

Activities that are popular with both of mine despite the age gap include kinetic sand, play-doh, lego and drawing and stickers. Though I'd definitely stick the older one in clubs or camps at least 2/3 times a week despite any protests - a lot of kids need some structured time during the holidays at that age, alongside down-time.

My dd goes to nursery just for 3 hours and by the time I drop and pick up it’s more like 2 hours.

also both kids have food sensory issues- so the time I get home is just consumed on making different meals for them. I’ve done the food therapy, OT everything.
today I set up an activity for my dd, played with her and I got up to use the bathroom. She immediately followed me and banged and screamed on the door. I stayed in for 10 min and she howled non stop. People do not understand how incredibly needy they are. If I’m sitting with them and just adjust myself, she will drop watch she’s going ready to follow me or burst into tears. I’m suffocated here. I took them out earlier and after 10 mins ds started whining about coming home and my dd was just screeching about it too.

Why do you still want to be a SAHP OP? Are you just holding out for when they’re both in nursery/school?

Um, that's toddlers. You can't just shut yourself in the loo like that. It's not fair.

I don't know any toddler who would have the patience while you sat in the toilet for 10 minutes. That's not ok. You keep the door open or take her in with you.

Honestly, you have clearly reached your limit, your children know it, which is why they are clingy.

You need to get out of the house, leave them with DH, and have some kind of reset. You need to go back to work.

It's not fair on them to have a SAHM who doesn't actually want to be a SAHM.

I don't have it in me to be a SAHM. Why do you insist on doing something that is clearly not right for you and your family?

Yes, my two year old would not cope with me locking myself in the toilet and not letting him in, even for a minute, and I feel he's quite good at independent play. It is so tough to break the cycle, when you are stressed and the kids feed on it though. Can your DD go to nursery for longer each day?

Ignore the moaning, you need to get out and they don’t to dictate what you do.

Not sure why you had a second child when you clearly didn’t enjoy having the first. Sometimes, as the parent, you have to make choices for children. So sign your 9 year up several times a week for cubs/music/football/swimming or whatever you think he will enjoy.

Some of these comments are so horrible... People don't remember what it's like to have kids this age. I completely understand what you mean OP and it's exhausting and draining and makes you feel claustrophobic. The whining is something else. We're meant to have villages, not just be one person doing most of it alone.

It really doesn't sound like being a sahm is working for you anymore. Can you not look into working in a different area not corporate eg the third sector or even some voluntary work?

I have kids this age now.

Food sensory issues are the worst and totally exhausting. My eldest (10) has this and is autistic and sometimes I snuggle him to sleep especially if he is really struggling. I also do the I just need to pop out to do tidying up, dishwasher etc and this works sometimes. CAMHS also recommended us a book Helping your child with fears and worries which has a method for helping children with anxiety - we had some success around food with it and we did it as a course with others and others had more success with bedtime etc. I think focus on doing something for you and maybe speak to GP about depression

Someone has probably said this but sometimes the clinginess is sibling rivalry/jealousy. They see their sibling all over you and don’t like it so have to compete.

Plus they see you withdraw and want to cling harder.

I would definitely consider going to work to get away from the vicious cycle that you’re stuck in.

Invite your older child’s friends for distraction so you get a break from him and he develops some independence.

Well yes it is you. Complaining that a 9 year old can’t entertain themselves and giving them a punishment? You are lazy you have to bring the energy to the room. So if your going park you tell them we have 20 mins on the playground, 20 mins kicking ball around etc. you need to give your elder ones activities in the house to do that he can do in same room near you whilst you do something with 2 year old. You could all bake together. But this all requires effort from you to make things better.

Do you have family nearby?

WRT your toddler, it sounds like you’re projecting your son’s issues onto her. Your expectations are too high perhaps. It’s quite normal for toddlers to want to be with their mum, and you do get 2hrs to yourself every morning is more than many.

WRT your son, he grew up as an only child due to the age gap so it’s pretty unsurprising that he’s struggling to share you/detach. As others have said, he needs a play date each weekend. Share firm boundaries with him “I’ll sit with you for 10mins then you go to sleep and I’m going downstairs. If you can’t sleep, you can read in bed”. Then a few weeks after make it 5mins, then straight to sleep/read.

It sounds like you have a privileged life, from reading your posts I gather he’s in private school, you have a lovely London home, holidays etc. I don’t mean this rudely but were you raised quite spoilt? Mums all other the country are at home with kids all day, wanting snacks, cuddles, fighting, whinging - that’s kids.