Struggling with the age gap

[Whatdoidotoday]

I need some advise because I’m losing it.

I have a 9yo and 2.5yo and I’m losing my mind. Dh is away for work for a while and usually we struggle through it together but I am just overwhelmed now.

The age gap means that there is not one activity/ event / anything that I can do with them both.
another huge issue is that both of them are children who cannot do a single thing on their own for one second

DS9 now gets a punishment for not occupying himself as I’m sick of it. He will not do any clubs so just wants to be home. But at home he is just hanging on to me constantly/ moaning/ complaining. I had such a bad experience to motherhood as he was such a Velcro child. We eventually sent him to nursery at 14m every day even though I am a sahm. He is a little better now but if you don’t tell him what to do, he can’t keep himself busy for long.

DD is an even worse child. Just constantly wanting to be on top of me. I sit down start an activity, play for 20min and walk away for 5min and she just cannot occupy herself. Constantly wants you right next to her doing the thing for her. I’m so sick of them. I’ve watched friends and they can get busy with something in the same room and their kids play/ do something independently. A few friends have even commented on how needy they are - I’m not offended because I fully agree. My toddler is at nursery every day but just for a few hours and I’m waiting for a space for the full day.

Im so worn down. I regret being a sahm. I regret being at home for them as they have turned out to be the most dependent, needy, and unable to do anything for themselves children.

im sure reading this sounds awful but I’m just burnt out.
my dh is amazing and so hands on and also agrees that our kids are incredibly hard work.

what do people do to get their kids independent.

So I have this with my 8 year old DD. She has therapy for unrelated reasons. One thing the therapist has stressed is that DD needs to learn how to deal with feeling uncomfortable. To my DD to be alone is to be uncomfortable.

DD wants to have constant input from me. I have been advised to have boundaries, so just say no to her when she wants to play and I don't. That is not the same as just ignoring her. But I am allowed to also have some time to myself instead of DDs preferred situation, which is 100% of my undivided attention at all times.

It seems to be working. Today I said no, I am reading. She got out a bracelet kit and entertained herself with that. When she was done doing the bracelet she needed some help finishing it off, which I happily provided.

This doesn’t sound fun for anyone. Over the summer holidays can you instill some new house rules or try some new approaches eg setting up age appropriate crafts and having a ‘jam’, 9y reads to the younger one or shows his favourite toys from when he was that age?

Does 9y have play dates with his own age group? Can he join a summer camp or start a new hobby? Why does he get to veto all clubs? If you were working he’d have to go somewhere. He mightn’t be self-starting but could he at least try 1-2 of them? In London we have the joy of them being available for every topic - nature, sports, academic, musical, medical/first aid…

Have you considered engaging a child physiologist to explore the clinginess?

Op it sounds so stressful. My 3 year old can occupy herself pretty well, we go to a cafe with a sand pit and I timed her the other week. 50 minutes playing by herself with a bucket and spade! Is there anything similar you can go to? Can you afford a gym membership with a creche to even get an hour to yourself to gather your thoughts? My gym does classes and play etc for your son’s age too. Personally I would be sending him, even just start with swimming where he literally has to be separate from you. If not I would probably have to go back to work I think!

I think you have to be a lot tougher on them.
I wouldn't tolerate that whining from the 9 year old.
Send him out to the garden to whine out there.

Stop the laying down at night.
Let them cry.
It sounds hellish.

I have an old friend whose two children sound like yours.
They have turned out well but the first 12 years were brutal.

She is a lovely person but indulged them terribly.
I wouldn't have been able to.
My mental health wouldn't have coped.

You are human, you need tp protect yourself or you will get sick.

Walk away from the toddler whining and start consequences for the 9 year old.

Have you tried having a conversation with the 9 year old? Get his side of things. He sounds unhappy. Can you tell us some of the things he really enjoys doing?

This makes a lot of sense to me and resonates a lot.

He was a baby who had severe reflux and colic and I think it was then that the intenseness began. We just never moved on from him being so close to me.

he really is just a wonderful child. Always a favourite among teachers, my friends love him to bits too, very popular amongst his friends. Just this need to be so close to dh and I is quite stifling.

He says he is fine. He has a good social life, has done some amazing things at school but just when he gets home he becomes incredibly needy.

at night he needs one of us to sleep with him till he goes off which can be up to 45 min. I refuse to do it because I spend an hour with DD. So dh ends up doing it after a full day of a stressful job, with no time to himself. This is after we give them a solid block of individual time every day.

Saw a couple of comments suggesting that giving children lots of attention/ not pushing independence makes them needy like this. Just wanted to add my experience for balance. I have a five and two year old, we co-sleep with them every night, have done natural term breastfeeding, still carry them around, etc etc. just as examples of how we probably couldn't have encouraged independence less! They are both now getting pretty independent, go off by themselves in parks, can play and entertain themselves, are doing well socially. I would think more likely it's the individual personality of the child that would make them 'clingy' and possibly the younger one is copying the older one, OP? That age gap sounds really tricky as well to give them both what they need. Are they any better on their own than together?

Just stop doing this.
Stop it.
It's ridiculous to stay with a young baby while they fall asleep, never mind a nine year old.

Have you and your husband really let this situation drag on for nine years? It's actually no wonder your child is incapable of doing anything unless you're there.

You're the parent. Take charge.

Truly, how is the 9 year old at school, does he like it? And how is he after school?

Extremely difficult, colicky baby that then turned into a demanding, clingy child who finds being alone stressful and behaves entirely differently in school to out of school…I’m getting quite a lot of neurodiversity vibes I have to say.

@Stilllifesi think I’m just so utterly worn down by them that I just don’t have the energy to implement anything.

I have put in place consequences for this now. I sent him off to bed last night and 30min later I could hear him silently sobbing which was heartbreaking for me so I gave in. I really don’t know what to do.

my dd is hundred times worse. What can I do as she’s a toddler.

The 2 year old sounds totally normal. And my mum had to lie down with me to fall sleep until I was around 10. I was a very independent child otherwise so it's not the co-sleeping/lieing in bed thing. It's not your fault but you sound exhausted.

I understand you want to be a SAHM but I think the version of "SAHM" you have in your head does not exist. You're not enjoying it. You're exhausted and touched out. Yes, working and juggling kids is really hard but mentally you do get a break when you are at work. You get a sense of self and achievement and even on a shit day, it's less monotonous.

You also sound very all or nothing. It's not SAHM vs hard long hours corporate world. There is balance in between.

Also to add, re the sleeping thing, to this day I find it hard to sleep alone and fall asleep. It's like the lights go off and I'm there with all my negative thoughts. I need a hug / cuddle. I don't know why. It's how I've always been. I slept alone from age 10 until, well, 30, so it's not just habit.

Did you discuss it with him first and talk about it, check he was happy with his night light, talk through ways to fall asleep etc? Or is it just you’ve had enough so here’s a punishment?

I don't think this is normal.

You should not need to sit with him to go to sleep, and shouldn't have needed to for years. At 9 you should be able to send him to wash and brush teeth at 8pm, then have him read in bed. You should just need to pop in 30/45 mins later to tell him lights out, give him hug/kiss goodnight.

He should be able to entertain himself at times but a lot of children get bored if they are alone. He won't be able to play a good board game etc with a 2 year old sibling.

I do think other children are key if you have a big age gap. You almost need to treat them like two only children. I'd plan in some summer holiday activities with peers - sports camps etc for some of the time, if you don't have any option to make plans with friends.

How about things like cooking, would they like to help you make cakes etc?

I would try more walks and keep praising whoever is moaning less.

Could you manage swimming with both of them?

Is the 9 year old onto video games/Wii etc, if so make the most of that during the school holidays?

Absolutely not. I have a 9 year old and she’s a social butterfly in fact sometimes I wish she would need me!

some kids are just like this I’m afraid, it may not even be something you have done. If I were you I’d go back to work, not corporate brain drain but something you would actually enjoy. Even volunteering in a charity shop to get out and talk to nice happy people, you are in an enviable position of not needing to earn money - do something with it and put the toddler in nursery, you cannot live like this dreading every day. I wish you luck and happiness

my dd is hundred times worse. What can I do as she’s a toddler

Um. Sleep train for one? I strongly recommend you work on a bedtime routine that doesn't involve you sat/lying with children for hours while they nod off. Look at disappearing chair approach etc. At 2.5 i used to do the approach of saying "ive just got to pop this laundry away, then I'll come back". Then you go off for 5 mins. You come back, sit for 2 mins then say "just going to take the milk cup down to the dishwasher then i'll come back". Repeat. Somewhere along the way they nod off, and it helps them accept that you are around the house busily getting on with jobs,they haven't been abandoned, you'll pop back and check on them but they don't need you 6 inches away to fall asleep.

You say they expect everything to revolve around them and that's because it does. Get yourself back to work - even part time and get a life of your own. Your kids will cope and you'll miss them when working so will enjoy your time with them and they will have learnt some independence from you.

Kindly, you need to say no a bit more. I say this as the parent of a needy DD.
With the toddler, you start by standing up, gently removing her and say 'no, sit next to me, not on me' praise her with your attention when she's doing that.
Your 9;year old needs to start to understand that you have needs and boundaries - at bedtime start saying you need to do something elsewhere for 10 minutes but will be back, so that he gets used to settling by himself but you/DH keep popping back - gradually make the gaps bigger.
My DD is autistic and hates having limits put on her, especially when she's talking to me about something but I have got her used to the fact that my interest in her special topics is not always the same as hers. Sometimes I would say you have my undivided attention for half an hour, but after half an hour, time's up. It pains her, but it's a reasonable compromise. She's older than your DC (so I have had years to learn this as well) but I wasn't willing to entirely subjugate my needs to hers. It's a good life skill too to understand that other people have needs.

You say you don’t want to go back to work because you want to be at home with your children, then go on to say you hate being at home with your children… so really, which is worse? You tried being a SAHM, you don’t enjoy it, surely that points to you being better off going back to work?
I can’t even imagine sitting with my 9 year old to go to sleep. She is currently in bed reading and in about 10 mins I’ll pop my head round and tell her to switch her reading light off. However I do have to sit with my autistic 5 year old while he falls asleep otherwise he gets extremely distressed, and I can see me still having to do this when he’s 9.

he has a very good life. Very secure home environment, good friends, great school, holidays, lots of praise and rewards, everything a child could want .. yet he is just so needy. Constantly complaining, constantly whining.
my toddler has turned out the same. Maybe it’s me.
our kids are probably one of the very few where both parents attend all school events, weekends revolve around them, we give each of them a good solid block of individual quality time daily, but it’s just never enough

Is he actually a bit spoiled? Its not a goid thing for life to revolve around a child. They lose perspective. You can attend to his real needs without pandering to every want. He does not need to be a little idol that you worship

Children do need to learn to be independent if they don't just 'get it' and being a bit bored or not being attended to immediately is just fine.

Our DD who is 9 needs one of us with her until she goes to sleep. I think the PP saying just leave him, don't lie with him, don't really understand that some children just need this. They can't help it, it isn't the parents' fault. They need it to feel safe. And if they don't feel safe they can't get to sleep. So we have no evening together. One of us stats with her until usually 10pm (as it's light so late) when she finally drifts off. The other one does the dishwasher/other jobs, then it's bed for us too. It's rubbish but we have accepted it now as we have tried everything under the sun. We have seen the distress all these efforts have led to, because she just doesn't feel safe left alone. Yet.

In our case it's because she has ADHD and really struggles to switch off, but I think there is also an underlying almost subconscious or unconscious fear of going to sleep, of giving in to her body's demand. Knowing that when she is asleep she is alone.

He will be picking up on your vibes. And he will react accordingly. He may need your calm nervous system to regulate (whether he is neurodivergent or neurotypixal). So if you aren't calm (including on the inside) he will sense that. It makes such a difference to DD when I take a breath, accept that she needs me and give her the calm compassion she needs. It's bloody hard work though and I am not always successful - my tone of voice, my facial expression will give me away.

Anyway... You sound desperate. Until your husband is back and able to share the load can you try to get out and about as much as possible? Free museums, trip to choose new library books and a cafe visit after? If he complains try to breeze over it - 'we'll be there soon, I'm looking forward to seeing the xxx, ooh and shall we get an ice cream afterwards ' etc so you don't shut him down but you don't engage with the complaining.

When your husband is back see if you can take a breather to reset. And I reckon speaking to a psychologist (you first, about the children) might be a good next step. To see what advice they can offer as to how to respond in a way that encourages independence without shutting them down.

Good luck, I feel for you. We have a 5 year age gap which is hard enough. Tricky DD is the younger one.

It is a vicious circle. You don't like them, they sense this, and the more they sense it the more clingy they become.

They are doing things that get your attention in a vain effort to make you like them. But you do not like what they are doing so you like them even less.

And round and round it goes.

You need some serious talking with your OH when he returns and create a strategy together. This cannot go on.