To think it really is a man's world?

[TreatTreat]

We all know it is, but itv1 confirmed it even more for me today by calling the Euros tournament the 'women's euro tournament'. TV stations sure as hell don't introduce men's tournaments with their gender in the introduction.

Also to add that many talented women who do go into politics eventually crack under the avalanche of targeted, vicious, sexually explicit abuse directed towards them by men who don't want them there.

Just as a mini case study...at my workplace there is a manger who until a few years ago had a stay at home wife. He was largely unsympathetic to the number of single mothers on staff who had to cut corners, work to the minute and no more, miss non essential meetings etc. A few years on, his wife became v successful in her little side business and went off on work trips leaving him to solo parent. All of a sudden he was the one conspicuously absent, late, dropping the ball occasionally and was full of wide eyed bewilderment about how hard / impossible it is to be in two or three places simultaneously. He genuinely did not get it before, despite being an educated, intelligent man. Just had no concept of what it takes to keep the plates spinning at work at home. Now multiply him by thousands of male employers who have a stay at home or minimally working wife and imagine what that does to a workplace environment and atmosphere with single working mothers and tell me the world is not still set against them.

Sure, it's cos they realise it's a bloody hard slog, where they have to give themselves totally to political & public life, giving up on their private lives, & time with their families. so most women (probably sensibly) opt not to pursue a career there, while more men than women make the sacrifices necessary to make their living through politics.

Are you really suggesting that women don't enter or succeed in politics because it's too much hard work? Or they aren't willing to make sacrifices? Are you having fucking laugh?

How many male politicians have a woman at home facilitating their career in politics? Women are still more likely to bear the brunt of unpaid care work, making it harder to commit to demanding political roles.

Female politicians are often scrutinised more harshly for their appearance, family life, or emotional expression and face disproportionate levels of online harassment, which can deter participation.

In the UK cabinet ministers have only been entitled to maternity leave since 2021and MPs have no right to mat leave and have only been able to nominate a proxy to vote on their behalf since 2019.

But yeah, women are scared of hard work and THAT's why we're underrepresented in politics.

And sorry, dressing up positive discrimination as positive action is purely senseless semantics in this case. The issue was that the head of the European Commission, who is a woman, wanted a woman commissioner and she forced Ireland to put forward a woman for the candidature, so much so that the best candidate, a man, wouldn't even go for it. That's positive discrimination in action!!

There is no point arguing with someone who can't understand why positive action is required in the first place.

.There is no point arguing with someone who can't understand why positive action is required in the first place

You're right (for a welcome change....), there is simply no need for "positive action " I.e. positive discrimination, or indeed discrimination on any grounds whatsoever, in today's world imho.

If you are against discrimination, you should be against positive whatever you call it, cos that's simply discrimination.

We are living in a post feminist society, most barriers to entry & advancement based on sex, in any career have been eradicated over the past 30-40 years imho.

So no need for whatever misnomer you attribute to the type of discrimination you are advocating for on here - none!!

P.s. on the subject of career choice- it's been well established that more women than men enter careers that offer more flexible hours, are more family friendly, yada, yada, yada. In short they're both cushier & offer more appeal to a working mom. E.g. primary school teacher, carer, etc, etc etc

Fully consuming careers, like politics as a for instance, have a far higher male v female participation rate.

Make what you want of that, and maybe many of these men are being facilitated by a (mostly) stay at home wife, I dunno. But they're the facts - that's what the data says. And even someone like you might find it hard to argue with the data... ;)

P.p.s. maternity leave for ministers & members of Parliament is a good one, why should you get mat leave from a job you will only be appointed to for 5 years!?

We've had this in Ireland. Our parliament introduced this measure in a gush of positive press. Then the minister for justice went off on mat leave with 2 consecutive pregnancies and guess what happened? Her dept, you know the one the people voted her in to run, went to shambles, crime rates went up and the amount of legislation fell through the floor!! Even my mother, a mother of 5 children, thought it was daft having mat leave for a new minister.

Fwiw, I think women should be entitled to mat leave in politics, maybe even as a minister, but this leave entitlement should have to be built up over a few years e.g. say 5 .

@HighLadyofTheNightCourt Nothing freaks out mediocre men, particularly mediocre white men, like any suggestion that they might actuall yhave to compete on an equal playing field. I'm not goign to reply to @ThatDaringEagle any more as he's either just trying to wind us up or is genuinely as clueless as he seems. Or, perhaps more likely, he's one of the many men out there whose life is a bit harder today because a) women expect more and b) women are actually part of the competition. Bless.

You're right (for a welcome change....), there is simply no need for "positive action " I.e. positive discrimination, or indeed discrimination on any grounds in today's world imho.

The data tells you that you are wrong. I supoose you also oppose positve actions initiatives which support men?

We are living in a posy feminist society, most barriers to entry & advancement in any career have been eradicated over the past 30-40 years imho.

They haven't. My job involves researching this and while progress has been made across many sectors all barriers have not been eradicated. That is a fact.

So no need for whatever misnomer you attribute to the type of discrimination you are advocating here - none!!

I don't advocate discrimination but I do support data informed positive action where appropriate.

P.s. on the subject of career choice- it's been well established that more women than men enter careers that offer more flexible hours, are more family friendly, yada, yada, yada. In short they're both cashier & offer more appeal to a working mom. E.g. primary school teacher, carer, etc.
Fully consuming careers like politics as a for instance, have a far higher male v female participation rate.

Again, my specific academic subject and partly the focus of my PhD and subsequent research.
Yes, there are differences in the career choices of men and women ( and the subject choices of boys and girls) but what you are ignoring completely is the reasons for these differences. You're ignoring the influences of stereotypes and societal expectations on career choice. You are ignoring the many structural barriers that influence (and dictate) career choice.

Make what you want of that, and maybe many of these men are being facilitated by a (mostly) stay at home wife, I dunno. But they're the facts - that's what the data says. And even someone like you might find it hard to argue with the data... ;)

I fully understand the facts and the data and that's why I know that women are still disadvantaged and discriminated against in some sectors. Men progressing their careers while being facilitated by a women is putting women at a disadvantage both in terms of their career development and their financial independence.

Funny how you seem happy to advocate women sacrificing their earning potential to support their husband's career and take on the bulk of childcare but resent those women when they the primary carer after a divorce and are entitled to child support to care for said children.

Definitely getting mediocre man being outclassed by fabulous women vibes

Let's be honest, entirely likely to be mediocre man being outclassed by even just slightly less mediocre women....

@ThatDaringEagle do you not think that the likelihood of the male MPs being supported by a female behind the scenes is pretty crucial? You dismiss it with a casual "I dunno"..though I think if you actually did consider the practicalities it's pretty likely to be the case. It means that that anyone who wants to be a parent and hold a high profile, stressful job need to either have a supportive pàrtner or pay a fuck tonne of childcare and probably only a live in nanny would work for an MPs workload and style. Now think hard about why that might mean the default is that women are less likely to do that job.

Oh and the idea that primary school teaching, or any teaching role is family friendly and flexible is hysterical and just further evidence that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about.

What do you mean the man has to “come up with extra money”? He is simply making a contribution to the rearing of his kids. He does not have to find any “extra money” compared to the mother. In most instances she is actually paying the lion share.

You do realise that the mother is still paying for her and the kids costs too right?

White men are not overlooked for jobs - CV discrimination works against ethnic minorities not white men.

And if men think they get the short straw with divorce and maintenance why do so few of them apply to be primary parent during marriage and post divorce?

@ThatDaringEagle ?

Excellent point about teaching … it’s a huge misconception!!

How do you know that the best candidate was a man?

My friend commuted via park and ride bus to our nearest big city. When the bus drew in to the car park at the end of the day she and most other women were standing ready and ran to their cars. One man once asked my friend in bewilderment “why do the women run?”. Men don’t know they’re fucking born half the time.

That's just cos you're obviously a tool & can't contribute to the debate without trying to get personal. So right back at you!!

This is what Google AI says on the health care budget issue, try taking it up with them:

Here is what Google AI says about the different level of health expenditure on the sexes.
While there isn't a single, definitive percentage of the health budget specifically allocated to women versus men, it's generally understood that women tend to utilize a larger portion of healthcare resources due to a variety of factors including longer lifespans, specific health needs like maternity care, and higher rates of chronic conditions. However, research also indicates that men's health research and funding may be disproportionately lower than women's, despite certain conditions impacting men more severely.

Yeah, right 2/3s days working hours, finished at the same time as the kids finish school and teachers even have the hugely elongated holidays kids have also.
It's about as child friendly a job as there is or can be, and in fairness to the many women & mothers who opt for that career- they realise it also!!

Hilarious 😆
Men who are not threatened by women recognise that structural inequalities still exist.
You come on to a predominantly female forum and comment on a thread with the sole purpose of telling women they’re wrong.
I was being kind when I said you gave off mediocre man vibes. My real opinion would probably get deleted.

Tell me you know fuck all about teaching without telling me you know fuck all about teaching 😂

This response from you was so predictable I pretty much called it word for word 😂😂
Oh and before you tell me I’m wrong I work on teacher training courses and I’m a governor at 2 schools.

Teachers on this thread… when was the last time you finished your working day at the same time the school day ended?

** the answer is NEVER

@ThatDaringEagle I've been a teacher for nearly thirty years. My typical day involves getting to my desk at 7.45 and leaving about 4.30/5. Not sure what a 2/3 day is then. Most teachers will then also bring marking / planning home to do after they've done dinner, homework, playtime bath and bed for little ones.

The holidays are the only family friendly bit..though I used to have to pay for the childcare in the holidays anyway as the business model of a childminder doesn't usually allow for her to take a big drop in earnings during the holidays and it would unsettle the kids if they didn't see her for six weeks and then put back again. Do bear in mind that most of our long holidays are enforced unpaid leave. We get paid for something like 5 weeks of the standard 13. Additionally, the only way a teacher gets to see their own child's Nativity play or sports day is if they have amazing colleagues and an understanding management. I wasn't there for either of my kids' first days, last days, special days because I was teaching other peoples' kids. If your level of the workforce in general is as good as your knowledge of the teaching profession then debating with you is pretty pointless.

I am asking about your link. You said it shows mens funding is lower despite men’s health issues being more serious. Your link does not say that - where did you get it from?

I don't really understand this either. I'd have assumed maybe it was slow to get out the barrier or something so people didn't went to get caught in a long queue.

Because they had to collect children from childcare. Nurseries and after school clubs have hard deadlines for pick up. Wasn’t an issue for the men it seemed.

Maybe because the punters don’t want to watch it.