Tax increases imminent

[Iwishicouldflyhigh]

Heavy hints that taxes will rise in the next Budget after the recent climb down (as the ‘taxes won’t rise again’ was based on a 5 billion saving in benefits).

I can’t lie, I’m so pissed off about this. I don’t think anyone wants to see someone who is genuinely unable to work to be further penalised, but we all know there are thousands of people who could work but don’t.

this country is going to absolute shit . We pay more and more for less and less.

You can’t means test the NHS, for the same reason you can’t means test universal benefits like PIP and child DLA - or even state pension as some have suggested here. The problem will always be where to set the threshold - those for benefits are always traditionally low. So you will always have those in need of services who miss out because they are a few pounds over the threshold. It’s a race to the bottom.

Why can’t it be means tested?

I understand that. But there are also a lot of piss takers, if not you have a serious mental health problem in the UK with the amount of people who can’t seem to work at all because of it.

We have the one of the very lowest basic rates of tax.

Of course it’s not, but they do it anyway.

Sorry, I thought I’d explained why.

But if they don't even try it certainly isn't going to work.

Yep - in favour of all those things and I’m happy to accept that I wouldn’t receive benefits because I’ve spent my whole life fulfilling my end of the social contract and have made sensible provision for my family. Not everyone can do that, and those who can’t should be protected, but a great many more could do it and haven’t - I have no sympathy whatsoever for them.

I do think we should pay more taxes, yes.

But the point of the post was just to point out that if you want lower taxes you have to accept the consequences of them. Stop complaining that public services are so poor when no-one wants to pay for them.

Norway was investing its oil revenues in the country's futures when Thatcher was handing out lower taxes. Guess which country is better off now?

I think judging by this thread there is a lot of cynicism about whether higher taxes will translate into public services - and I get that because confidence in politics is very low. But Scandanvia and Germany manage it - and yes they are both better run. Its not a hunch - their childcare is cheaper, better parental leave, cost of living lower, better public transport, better deals for renters and owning a home, and an economy not based on London’s financial market! Its just hilarious to say we are better run!

So what. If they have paid tax and NI all their working lives, with the assumption they will get a pension then that destroys the social contract and sends out a clear message that it's better to spend all your money and be entitled to all sorts of things rather than save and be prudent.

Also, if the state pension is means tested, does that mean all those that have never paid any tax or NI don't get it either? Why should someone who has never contributed be given the state pension when those that have could potentially not get it? That would be incredibly unfair and totally destroy the social contract and trust in government going forward.

We need to stop punishing people who do the right thing.

Actually means testing things like DLA and PIP isnt unreasonable, the problem is that they are both gateways to other non-government supports because they are used as evidence if a disability. I receive DLA for my DD, it pays for specialist tutoring that supplements a fairly shit state provision. More helpfully it gives access to community supports and services, allows carers access to things like the cinema, swimming pool etc and allows adjustments like quiet spaces at public events.

All the organisations that offer such things want evidence of her DLA to prove her disability. If there was a way to evidence disability and the need for necessary adjustments that didn’t need DLA, I wouldn’t claim it - our household income can absorb the additional costs associated with her disability. And yes, I know we’re in a privileged position, but I know we’re not the only ones. Setting a reasonably high threshold while also having an alternative means of evidence would take some people out of the pot.

It won't translate into better public services. The government are even talking about increasing the level of service just how much less does it need to be cut to pay for the welfare bill. If I pay more I won't get better services, there will just be another person has the ability to play Xbox all day.

cureently you do t have to register for VAT until your turnover is over £90k a year. So many people just stop working for the rest of the year when they near the threshold as if they have minimal expenses registering for VAT just means they lose 1/6th of everything they earn.

Drop the VAT registration threshold to £10k and the government would take so much more money in tax. It’s such an easy win I’m so disappointed that Labour stent implementing ideas like this.

@Rosscameasdoody We've already got people going to private GPs, private dentists, private care in desperation because they cannot access care on the NHS.

The NHS is paying private providers to provide services - screening, testing and operations.

The NHS needs drastic change and we need to force people to be more responsible in how they access services - some people take enormous amounts of services that they do NOT need, multiple appointments for the same issue when they have been told what the issue is (usually that they need to actually do something like physio exercises that they don't want to do or that it is a self limiting illness that they can manage themselves).

Everyone needs to pay something for prescriptions - everyone. No issue if it's the annual charges but so many people are stockipiling medications that cost enormous amounts to dispense and these are then unused and finally disposed of - or even worse used unsafely and given out to family members.

It’s not the higher earners who are paying low tax rates in this country. I have an effective rate of 60%. How high do you want it to go?!

I can see where you're coming from here, crimsonlake, but with the Assisted Dying Bill just being passed I do worry about the obvious connection

That said there's a difference between what's being legislated for and simply allowing nature to take its course when the very elderly become seriously ill, and I could certainly get behind that

But you absolutely can means test access to public health - they do in NZ. You can means test the state pension - they do in Australia. All of these things ARE possible,

Obviously. 🙄

What level of income does the 45% tax rate start in Germany?!

So a two tier system then ? Those who are expected to pay the extra cost and those who aren’t ? So where do you set the threshold. Disability is diverse and varies in cost. How do you tell a family with a very severely disabled member who have say, £250,000 in savings, or a high income, that despite the fact that the cost of disability is going to outstrip their resources in a couple of years, they will have to pay themselves until their resources run out and they’re on the bones of their arse ?

oh and means test DLA. DH was earning £200k at the time and we were entitled to middle rate DLA for DD and I carers allowance (because it doesn’t look at household income, just the claimants income). Madness. There’s just not enough money NOT to means test these things.

If there is the political will for it. Clearly, in the UK, there isn’t.

Where would you set the threshold ? Someone who has a high income and a high level of disability related cost is going to be in the same position as someone with a lower income and a lower level of disability related cost. Where do you draw the line ?

Because that is the responsibility of having a child. Too many people are happy to pop out the sprogs but not then pay for them. Any of us could have a disabled child, take should be taken into consideration when you choose to have children, you support them whatever happens.