I hate anti-vaxxers

[An89]

How can anyone in this day and age be an anti-vaxxer? London and West mids currently suffering from a meassls outbreak. DS is under 1 so cannot yet have vaccine, I know of someone whose 10momth old contracted measels as they were too young for vaccine.
Ridiculous that reckless and tardy parents are putting all our children at risk. Actually terrible.

I love it when people say they’ve “researched”. You’ve watched YouTube and Facebook. That is not research. The rate of vaccine injury is 0.0053%. I highly doubt your child actually is vaccine injured. Convenient for your antivax narrative though... You also don’t seem to understand the first thing about herd immunity. If everyone who can vaccinate does, it halts the spread of disease and people who cannot vaccinate are protected by association because there’s nobody to spread it to them. If a disease rampages through a population that’s not creating herd immunity, it’s natural selection - people who are vulnerable will die. Look at the plague - that went away without a vaccine…. But it killed over a third of Europe. Or Spanish flu - that went away without a vaccine. 50 million people died though. Herd immunity is the many protecting the few, not the many dying and leaving the few.

What are your scientific and/or medical qualifications?

Just look at her username and you’ll work out that her antivax stance is probably strongly linked to her self declared MH conditions.

Nope. You can still buy them privately. It’s the criteria to be eligible for a free one in the autumn vaccination scheme.

They’ve changed the criteria to be the same as for the spring covid vaccinations so if you were only eligible for one per year then you probably aren’t eligible for one at all now.

It would be much better if the UKHSA at least said they recommended it for all adults but they weren’t going to provide it because it was cost effective on a population level so people would have to buy it themselves but I guess that would raise some awkward questions they’d have to explain away.

FWIW for whoever mentioned it upthread the initial Pfizer trials did show the vaccine prevented transmission of wild type SARSCOV2 nobody was lying. It was true at the time. But by the time it was manufactured widely the barely controlled spread in the U.K. had managed to develop alpha and delta which it was slightly less effective against. A well matched vaccine still shows reasonably good efficacy for preventing an infection for up to 6 months after the vaccine. As well as preventing a severe infection and reducing the chance of long covid and other long term Covid sequelae.

It’s not the only vaccine that reduces severity of disease rather than completely preventing transmission.

Plumbing and sanitation helped with the spread (just as measures like cleaner indoor air or better ventilation would help reduce the spread of airborne viruses and like today, costs, pushback, bau, beliefs, fatalism, short-termism, playing down impacts of diseases/rites of passage etc win, just as they did over sanitation previously). Vaccines played a major part in controlling cholera and sanitation alone without vaccination would have been insufficient in nearly eradicating polio.

Immune amnesia as a detox plan sounds a bit shite!

I'd been assuming that, but I've known a few HCPs with assorted MH conditions, so we'll see.

Far from priming the immune system, measles wipes the immune memory for everything. Children who get measles are more likely to die of any disease than a child who hasn’t in the two years after infection. And that’s before the chances of developing SSPE 10 years down the road and dying from your previous measles infection then.

You've got to feel sorry for the intellectually challenged.

It does become a concern when people are giving misinformation about immunity or vaccines though or when your choices affect others.

Maybe I’m an anxious ocd mum because I’m vaccine damaged myself. Who knows. Not a doc. Just a mum who was pro vax as I said, until we weren’t due to the reason I stated. Further research of my own has confirmed this is the right decision for us, for now.

I said measles is a detox for the body which clearly it is if it wipes the immune system memory.

and in all honesty, we wouldn’t be here today if it was as deadly as they make out it is now.

I will admit I know very little about childhood vaccines as I don’t have kids and had my vaccines many years ago! I’ve never had a vaccine as an adult, other than a tetanus about 15-20 years ago, until the covid ones.

50 million dying was 2.7% of the population - that doesn’t equate to the many dying and leaving the few.

And before you start, no of course I wouldn’t want 2.7% of the worlds population wiped out. Hopefully with better sanitation and control measures we wouldn’t see those numbers again.

What’s to say you wouldn’t have been more damaged by contracting the disease itself? Since most vaccines work because they contain live attenuated or dead pathogens, it’s not unheard of for some people to experience similar symptoms as those they would experience if they contracted the disease naturally, although less likely and more mildly if and when they do. To apply your logic to every single vaccine doesn’t make sense because each one is different.

Nope, I hate people who spread preventable diseases to babies too young to be vaccinated and the immunocompromised as much in real life as online.

I think that any parent who causes a death by refusing vaccines should face a murder charge.

Yanbu its so frustrating how gullible people are and how some people will believe anything they see on social media. You could literally post my kid had their vaccine and grew a 2nd head and people would believe it.

There’s nothing to say that. Apart from severe anxiety which I’m not actually saying is vaccine related, I’m pretty healthy and fully vaccinated as a child. My mother had all said childhood diseases, no vaccines and is arguably healthier than me. My children are partially vaccinated - 1 vaccine injured. So that’s it for us. A mixed bag.

Technically the babies should have inherited temporary immunity from their mums until around 9 months of age. Especially if breastfed.

Also what about the deaths that are caused by vaccine derived strains? Do we jail the nurse? The drug company? The recipient?

Would you not be more anxious if your children caught measles and died/became disabled when it could have been prevented by a vaccine that has an excellent safety record? I’d bet my life you’d be very regretful.

Have you got a source for your claims about the benefits of these diseases?

And I don't interpret the article you quoted about then-Prince Charles's measles the way you seem to imply we should. I don't believe anyone at the time could have been complacent about a disease which can lead to devastating complications and which caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year (according to the World Health Organisation) before vaccination began in 1963.

As Charles was 12 at the time and born in '48 he had the measles around 1960, before vaccination. It is easy to believe that people would have been fairly fatalistic about it at the time, when there was no defence against a highly contagious disease. And where the article states that 'it is expected that the illness will run its usual course' I interpret that as meaning that it had passed the dangerous stage where the dreaded complications might have occurred - otherwise why even mention this?

So I don't read this as complacency about the disease, but stoicism. This happened just 15 years after the end of WW2 after all so probably a 'stiff upper lip' was usual.

Me too, it’s a privilege to have vaccines readily available, especially in light of the fact that in some third world countries children die all the time purely due to lack of availability.
The ignorance and conspiracy theories really frighten me. I do think Covid meant that rumours spread among some communities and this attitude seems to have stuck. I will always blame the government at the time for the worst possible handling of the pandemic which has hugely impacted on this.

Bloody hell, is that really your idea of a ‘detox’?
you’ve clearly no understanding of how the immune system works if you think wiping its memory is a ‘detox’.

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