AIBU for noticing this?

[MyBusyWriter]

From reading posts on here such as the one where the mom wants to take her son out to eat one on one for his birthday and his wife gets upset at not being invited or the other one where a mother wants to take her son out to a baseball game there is a pattern I have noticed.

I've noticed that once a son gets married and has kids, the expectation is that his mother will prioritize her role as a grandmother and support the family unit as a whole. But sometimes, this can feel like a shift away from the mother-son relationship.

For example, if a son wants to spend time with his mom one-on-one, it might be seen as taking away from family time. Or, if he vents to his mom about his wife, she's expected to remain completely neutral or even shut down the conversation by telling him she won't listen to negative talk about his wife. Some might even expect her to point him in the direction of a therapist, implying that his issues are his own problem to deal with. It's like there's an unspoken rule that a mother's role is to support the marriage at all costs, rather than nurture her individual relationship with her son or offer emotional support.

And it gets even more complicated when it comes to showing appreciation for her son's accomplishments. If a mother wants to treat her son to something special for working hard or achieving a milestone, it's often viewed as undermining her DIL or not recognizing her efforts. Like, somehow, showing love and appreciation for her son is seen as a criticism of her DIL.

It's interesting to note that the dynamic can be different for mothers and daughters. When a daughter vents about her husband, her mother is often expected to be a supportive listener. And when a daughter wants to spend time with her mom, it's usually seen as a normal and healthy part of their relationship. Mothers of daughters also seem to get a pass when it comes to showing appreciation and support - no one expects them to stop being their daughter's mom just because she's married or has kids.

I'm curious - have others noticed these dynamics? How do you navigate these relationships and expectations? Do you think there's a double standard at play, or am I just reading too much into it?

I do notice these dynamics but freely admit it might be a bias as I am a mom of boys who worries about how things will play out as they marry and move on with their lives. I am not a "boy mom" who insists on being in every little activity and nuance of their lives. I have a friend who was/is like that and it has led to so much angst that I used her as an example of what not to do. That being said, I am very close to my sons and enjoy one on one time with them as schedules permit. And I am a daughter with two sisters who also sees how acceptable it is for me to go out with my mom 1 on 1, where DH would rarely think to do that with his Dad. Lots of layers to this.

Boy mum alert 👀 No I haven't noticed that, HTH. In addition, a better comparison would be a married man and his dad really. I know plenty of men who see their dads weekly for golf or football etc. With regards to venting, that's what friends are for. I don't think it's particularly useful to slag off your spouse to family. They don't forgive or forget.

Where do you fit in to this scenario op?

What's that old saying about a daughters your daughter for all of your life, a sons your son til he takes a wife...

Are you writing a thesis?

I think you are right op. It’s seen as ok for a mother to spend time alone with her daughter and a father to spend time alone with his son. Yet somehow there seems to be objections for a mother and son to spend time together and maybe the same for a father and daughter to spent time alone.
I do think quite often it might come down to how much time and effort the son spends on his own family. So I would imagine a wife would not mind her dh spending time with his mother if he was a sahp. However I presume it gets more problematic if the husband is rarely at home, then the time might be viewed as time he should/could be doing household chores or looking after his own children.

Oh heavens…. That would be a mind numbingly dull topic for a thesis!!

I think you are right op. It’s seen as ok for a mother to spend time alone with her daughter and a father to spend time alone with his son. Yet somehow there seems to be objections for a mother and son to spend time together and maybe the same for a father and daughter to spent time alone.

oh 🤐

don’t be silly!!

Have you posted before OP? About your DIL, by any chance?

I am a mother to a young son and a young daughter and I do see it play out in real life, based on responses on here and in other forums, and with people who have DILs. I just feel like it will be acceptable to not just essentially "fall back" on my relationship with my daughter when she grows up and if she marries and has children that I will be able to continue to nurture my relationship with her through activities like lunch or dinner, shopping, spa days etc. But if I were to notice my son's stress and he is married with kids it would be viewed through the lens of, "well what are you doing for your DIL or way to ignore her stress as well." Like I am expected to view my son as being morphed into one family unit alongside my DIL and my grandchild. I really don't want that. I want to be able to maintain an individual relationship with my son even if he marries the same I would for my daughter.

Just like it is socially acceptable for a woman to say to her mother, "ughh I am so frustrated with Dan I had to remind him about the dishes for the millionth time this week." And a mother could be sympathetic to her daughter even telling her that must be frustrating, tell Dan to step up and it says absolutely nothing to how she feels about her son in law. But if a son says to his mom, "ughh Monica keeps nagging me about cleaning up the garage." and if his mom were to not immediately say, "hey listen that sounds like it's between you and your wife work it out or hey don't talk about your wife like that." it's viewed as not respecting his marriage or not liking her DIL. Whereas regardless of gender I want both my kids to feel free to come to me openly about anything at any points in there life.

No I am a mother to a young son and young daughter.

Yup! Anything a mother does individually for her son outside of "supporting the family unit" is seen as ignoring or not liking her DIL. Instead of just acknowledging it for what it is a mother supporting her son.

I am just not sure why the response to a son venting about an issue with his wife the mother is basically expected to defend her DIL instead of supporting her son. Listening to your own child should never be a problem,

Ehh friends are biased too. I am protective of my friends and am even closer to them than a lot of family.

A son is a son till he takes a wife, a daughter is daughter for all of her life.

I'm a Mum to boys and girls.

Both my sons are in ltr, one with a man, the other with a woman.

I don't have this dynamic at all, but I make sure to treat their partners as separate relationships I need to nurture.

Sometimes I invite the partners out or buy them small gifts, I message regularly to see how they are.

Pretty much how I treat my sons.

I'll do the same when my daughters get partners too.

Imo having a great relationship with your kids partners is essential, and so I try really hard, and never overstep. I make sure they know if I ever do overstep that either my dc or they can come to me and I won't be offended or upset either.

It's not a man/woman thing, it's a relationship thing.

With a LOT of time on her hands

Why use 10 words when 100 will do!

It's great that you're worrying about this already OP.

There's nothing like being prepared!

Of course, but if your best friend told you her partner had done something awful, you'd never feel the same about him. But that's okay, cos you don't really have to see him. Now imagine it's your daughter in 20 years telling you something awful about your SIL but she decides to stay with him. Now the family dynamic is affected.

You're thinking about this way too far in advance. They might be gay, they might not marry, they might not have children, they might never leave home. DH is far closer to his parents, especially his mum, than I am to either of mine. I would just never go shopping or on a spa day with my mum, we just don't have that kind of relationship.

@RepoTheGeriatricOpera has it right. I'm very lucky that I have a lovely MIL and try to be a nice DIL. We're not mega close, but we have a good relationship.

The daughter complaining about her husband not taking equal responsibility for housework is a known societal issue. A son complaining about his wife 'nagging' is the same thing, a man failing to step up in his relationship. So yeah, I would be supportive of a daughter in her fight against the patriarchy and not be supportive of my son being a potentially lazy arse in these scenarios...

You're missing the point of my observation, which is that there's a double standard in how people expect mothers to interact with their sons versus their daughters. The example about household responsibilities is just that - an example. The real issue is the expectation that mothers should prioritize their son's marriage over their relationship with their son, to the point of not even listening to him if he's venting about his wife. The suggestion that a mother should openly tell her son she won't listen to negative talk about his wife is a huge expectation of loyalty, and it's not something that would be expected of a mother-daughter relationship.

I don’t think it does miss the point. If the son is following the fairly common pattern among men, he might need his mum to defend his wife and his marriage rather than reinforcing his belief that domestic work is women’s work. Otherwise his marriage may fail. Surely no mum wants her child’s marriage to fall apart, especially if it could be happy if their child just pulled his finger out a bit and realised that parenting and domestic jobs are shared responsibilities. OTOH if a mum sees her daughter overwhelmed with the mental, emotional and domestic loads in her relationship she may well be supportive because she’s probably experienced it before. That said, I have also seen/heard of mothers supporting their sons in law and telling their daughters that women need to look after their men, etc.

Who are these people?

The real issue is the expectation that mothers should prioritize their son's marriage over their relationship with their son, to the point of not even listening to him if he's venting about his wife. The suggestion that a mother should openly tell her son she won't listen to negative talk about his wife is a huge expectation of loyalty, and it's not something that would be expected of a mother-daughter relationship.

what planet are you on Op?

i think this is the case of someone with far far too much time on their hands and making shit up just for the sake of having something to start a mumsnet thread about

OP’s style and complaint does remind me of the poster whose DiL likes to join in conversations between her and her DS, and who resents the DiL for being hurt when she’s excluded from gift-giving and the like.

Maybe they’re sisters 🤔