Unpleasant altercation - who was the most unreasonable?

[zerofeeling]

Took my dogs out today and was trying to park in a small space between two cars on a country lane. As I was inching back to fit into the space I heard a loud crunch 😖

The two men from the car behind had just set off on their walk, as I got out of my car one of them was heading back towards me shouting why did I try to park in such a small space. I said sorry and inspected the front of his car - couldn't see any damage at all, and apart from a tiny paint scuff nothing on my car. I said to him 'i can't see any damage, it doesn't look like I hit you'
Man just glanced over at his car then asked me for my details, I asked is that necessary and said again there's no damage. He said that's not the point you have to give your details if you've been in a collision. He was much taller than me and sort of fronting up to me repeating that he wanted my details and me refusing, saying I don't think it was a collision, I think I might have hit something underneath my car. (For info my Mum and a friend have both been scammed on their insurance by people who claimed all kinds of things after very minor prangs)

Then he took an ID wallet out of his pocket and flipped it open to show a photo and badge and said he's Police. I couldn't tell if it was genuine or not. He held his phone up and said he's filming me refusing to comply with the law.
By this time the other man had come back and also filming me and I started to worry - I'm in a secluded area, with two men who are much bigger than me. I told them I felt intimidated and are they trying to scam me?

I got in my car and tried to shut the door but 1st man held onto it to prevent me. I asked if he's trying to detain me and he said no but I will if you don't give me your details, I've identified myself to you as a police officer. I said you've got no right to detain me. Eventually he let go of the door and I had to turn the car round as the lane is a dead end. Once I turned round he said again that I'm breaking the law by refusing to give my details after a collision and he started to recite the Caution they give when you're arrested! I drove away very shaken up, no idea what consequences to expect.

Wayne Cousins is not the only serving police officer that has raped or abused women. He is just the easiest name to say that people will recognise.

This!

You've heard a loud crunch, if there’s nothing behind or in front of your car (other than the parked cars), and he said you’d hit it after you heard the crunch, then it’s quite obvious that you hit his car! And you even said there was some of the paint on your own car.

You were unreasonable (and breaking the law) by not providing your details. Yes the filming etc sounds a bit excessive but from his POV he might find damage to his vehicle when he gets home and wants evidence that this happened.

Don't know why you didn’t give your details when you knew you’d hit it.

How do you know the loud crunch wasn’t created by the waiting ‘policeman’? I feel that feeling intimidated is a personal thing that you might feel regardless of them being tall, short, fat, thin old or young for example. I’ve felt intimidated by 10 year old children!!

All you needed to do was swap mobile numbers and possibly note down the car reg. I would have taken photos too.

He behaved over aggressively, but you shouldn't have driven off without swapping details.

We only have OP's version that he was intimidating . He was probably annoyed more than anything as both he and OP had heard the crunch but she didn't think she'd hit him .

You should have given details over. Fortunately if someone doesn’t and later damage is found (under panelling that is flexible) then all they need is your license plate number to register it with their insurer.

@zerofeeling you’re showing your naivety all over here I’m afraid. Just because you couldn’t SEE the damage, doesn’t mean that you haven’t caused an expensive problem underneath with the car’s impact protection that absorbs the hit. It’s almost certain that you hit his car - ‘the noise might have been something under my bumper’ doesn’t cut it, you were backing into a small space between two cars.

The worse he did was forget/be unaware of the power balance between you as a woman and him as a man in a secluded area, but he was probably panicking that you were attempting to drive off after hitting his car. He should have just taken your reg and called the police on you.

And what do you think the scam is? Wait around on country lanes until someone tries to park in a small gap, set up something in the small gap that makes a lot of noise when driven on but is invisible to the eye and then claim for damage? Even if all that were true, all he would get would be a repair to non-existent damage on his car. It's not like he would be able to claim whiplash.

The OP and all the others accusing this man of being a scammer clearly have not thought this through. Or, in the OP's case, it's just a desperate attempt to justify her breaking the law by not exchanging details after a crash.

Don’t we always have one side of the story on mn?!!

How can you not know if you hit his car.. just because there was no visible 'damage' doesn't mean you didn't hit it.. didn't you get stop and get straight out to look at it? Surely from the position you were in you would know if it was his car you hit or something else.

I'd be annoyed if I was him and it was obvious that you hit it, but denied you did then refused to give your details.

If you don't want to get insurance 'scammed' by people then don't go and hit other cars with yours...

he has your reg so he can contact his insurance company

That’s not actually true though. You must report it as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case, within twenty-four hours of the occurrence of the accident. That doesn’t mean you have 24hrs to report it.

You don’t have to be a genius to understand that just because there is no physical damage at first glance doesn’t mean you didn’t hit it. When clearly you did.

I don't think that they should have tried to stop you getting into the car and that does sound scary. However, you heard the crunch, which is why you got out to inspect. Not all damage is visible, you did need to give details I think. I have been hit by a car with no visible damage except a tiny dent I missed at first, but actually when they took of the bumper there was a lot of damage. The lady who hit me also tried to refuse to give me her details and was extremely rude as she said there was no damage. It is best to let insurance deal with these situations, although I can see why you were intimidated and they should not have behaved in this way (they could just have taken your number plate).

You really must report - otherwise you can get a fine and points (literally for not reporting!). There’s usually an online form for your local. They’re very unlikely to do anything about the actual accident such that it was but they may well prosecute for “failure to stop” if you don’t report.

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/fail-to-stopreport-road-accident-revised-2017/

I thought that after the Sarah everard case and a number of other high profile cases of police misconduct women were advised to make their way to the nearest police station if stopped by an officer… either way I think it’s reasonable for you to have felt extremely intimidated in this situation. If he is indeed a serving officer I’d be providing feedback to his supervising officer or ipcc about how he handled that interaction with a lone female

I think OP did the right thing. This man was acting in a threatening way, and, as others have said, you are allowed time to report a minor accident. Different if someone was hurt, of course. Thinking about what has happened with police officers and women on their own, I'd be very much 'better safe than sorry.' He wasn't acting legally when he tried to stop OP closing her car door - there's something very dodgy about the whole thing.

You are under no obligation whatsoever to hang around exchanging details in a situation where you feel threatened. I'd have thought this would be obvious to anyone with half a braincell, but here we are.

What also should have obvious to OP, was that she should have immediately informed the police/her insurance as soon as she'd made herself safe, whether that was by locking herself in her car or driving away.

It's not up to OP to unilaterally decide that no damage has been done just because she can't immediately see any, but the second that the other party's behavior becomes threatening or suspicious enough that she doesn't feel safe to collect her evidence or remain in their presence, she has every right to extract herself and let the police/insurance deal with it.

Need to report to your insurance

I’d have been furious at you repeatedly denying you hit his car when it seems obvious to everyone you did hit his car. Even to you seeing as you were inspecting for damage and everyone heard a loud crunch. I can’t begin to explain how angry I’d have been.

You can’t just say that you can’t see damage so i don’t think I hit you, you can obviously say that you can’t see any damage. You then give your details, take photos of the non damaged cars and let the insurance deal with it. He can’t claim off you if the insurance agree there’s no damage. If he says there’s damage your photos would be evidence and also the insurance company would inspect the car.

dh got rear ended once by someone once at low speed at traffic lights and they both agreed theregwas no damage so dh didn’t bother getting details . Later that day dh realised the clips holding the bumper on were fucked, something under the car was bent and it was hundreds of pounds to fix. That was 15 years ago. So would probably be thousands now. You have no idea if you have done something similar to his car and neither does he. Which is why he wants your details

I think them trying to insist on your details was perfectly reasonable. You’ve committed an offence by not giving your details. Your best bet is to go to the police now and report the incident and hope they will deem that sufficient and don’t throw the book at you.

This.

you are so incredibly unreasonable I don't understand why you even need to ask. So entitled.

You've had a very sheltered life if you believe it's perfectly safe to give your personal information to an angry man threatening you in a secluded place and pulling out a "police ID".

Of course she should have, her safety is paramount and far more important than any potential damage to some random man's car. She can sort the car stuff out later

Apparently some posters here believe appeasing the angry man in a secluded place is more important.

Other than obvious cosmetic damage he is unlikely to know what he’s inspecting for as he isn’t a mechanic, so would take it to a garage to be checked (unless you have decided he is actually a mechanic and it’s all part of his scam).

What are you hoping to get from this thread? You’ve been advised to contact the police to report both the incident you drove away from and the suggested intimidation, although I would only report that if it is actually true and not you pretending to justify your behaviour. You don’t seem to be contacting the police or your insurance so what is your plan?