Unpleasant altercation - who was the most unreasonable?

[zerofeeling]

Took my dogs out today and was trying to park in a small space between two cars on a country lane. As I was inching back to fit into the space I heard a loud crunch 😖

The two men from the car behind had just set off on their walk, as I got out of my car one of them was heading back towards me shouting why did I try to park in such a small space. I said sorry and inspected the front of his car - couldn't see any damage at all, and apart from a tiny paint scuff nothing on my car. I said to him 'i can't see any damage, it doesn't look like I hit you'
Man just glanced over at his car then asked me for my details, I asked is that necessary and said again there's no damage. He said that's not the point you have to give your details if you've been in a collision. He was much taller than me and sort of fronting up to me repeating that he wanted my details and me refusing, saying I don't think it was a collision, I think I might have hit something underneath my car. (For info my Mum and a friend have both been scammed on their insurance by people who claimed all kinds of things after very minor prangs)

Then he took an ID wallet out of his pocket and flipped it open to show a photo and badge and said he's Police. I couldn't tell if it was genuine or not. He held his phone up and said he's filming me refusing to comply with the law.
By this time the other man had come back and also filming me and I started to worry - I'm in a secluded area, with two men who are much bigger than me. I told them I felt intimidated and are they trying to scam me?

I got in my car and tried to shut the door but 1st man held onto it to prevent me. I asked if he's trying to detain me and he said no but I will if you don't give me your details, I've identified myself to you as a police officer. I said you've got no right to detain me. Eventually he let go of the door and I had to turn the car round as the lane is a dead end. Once I turned round he said again that I'm breaking the law by refusing to give my details after a collision and he started to recite the Caution they give when you're arrested! I drove away very shaken up, no idea what consequences to expect.

So you reversed into someone, refused to give your details then drove off.
The man might not have been so belligerent if you had not been so uncooperative.

Originally "one of them was heading back towards me shouting". The filming came later.

Read the effing OP.

Loud crunch so you obviously caused damage that you couldn’t see, no idea why you are making more if it, you should have just given your details, like anyone decent would have.

Because you were trying to leave without giving your details which is the issue! I can’t see how you don’t see this is wrong!! You heard the noise as did he, you refused to give details so he got pissed off. Get over yourself!!

Absolutely this.

It is a criminal offense for a driver to leave the scene without stopping to exchange details or report the incident. This is illegal under Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

Penalties can include imprisonment, fines, and driving disqualification.

I swapped details with the other driver when I bumped their car, even though the only damage was to my car. That's the normal way of things, but if someone is making you feel threatened or intimidated you have a right not to give the details.

In my case I locked myself in my car until I saw the man's reaction- I was not going to get out if he was angry and threatening. Fortunately it was a young guy who was laid back and polite.

Most minor scrapes don't need reporting to the police and are just dealt with through insurance. In this case you might want to report their reaction to the police and say why you didn't swap details.

https://www.jmw.co.uk/services-for-you/motoring-law/accident-offences

I’m assuming you rang the police yourself when you got home to report the incident?

It is a criminal offence to intentionally or recklessly shout at or 'front up to' a person such that they apprehend the immediate infliction of unlawful force. This is illegal under Section 39 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.

Penalties can include imprisonment, fines and community orders.

That sounds very intimidating and unpleasant. I too would be very wary. He might have been the police, but that doesn't give him the right to intimidate you in that way 😏 I am afraid some members of the police have not covered themselves in glory have they. If you are really concerned about consequences, I would report it to the police with their descriptions. If he wasn't a police officer then it's very worrying for the general public.

Not quite, if you don't give your name and address, you must report the accident at a police station or to a police constable as soon as you can, and in any case within 24 hours (this does not mean you have 24 hours in which to report the accident).

Exactly.

I'd be taking your details too. My friend had somebody reverse into her and told them it was OK as no visible damage. Later realised bumper was a bit loose. Needed whole new bumper at much expense as clips were broken.

I have done thanks. Maybe you should too?. The impression I got from the OP was that they were a little distance from the car when they heard it been backed into so shouted over due to the distance.

The rest of the OP is all “he said” this and “he said” that. Not “shouted” this and “shouted” that. So he sounds calm and reasonable once he’s got back to his car and in talking distance.

only later on has this turned into him being intimidating, getting in her face, giving the impression he was shouting at her the whole time. 🤷‍♀️

and you sound very aggressive and intimidating, it sure why you need to swear at me!

Exactly and the police are allowed to attempt to apprehend anyone committing a crime even when off duty.

This sounds terrifying I'm sorry you had to deal with it. Surely if he was a cop he'd be able to run your registration and wouldn't need your details!?! I'd go into the local cop shop and tell them what happened and get it all documented. Impersonation of police is also a crime.

If it was under the car, it wouldn't have been visible unless she got down on her hands and knees and it sounds like she was too busy fending off those men to even think to look. Nor would any sane woman drop to all fours to check with two men looming over her.
I have no idea if she had her partner look under the car or not.

The story certainly has a lot of holes if you make assumptions about what she did or did not do instead of going strictly by what she has written.
I'm going by her information because it's all we have. She says she heard a sound, didn't really know what it was, then was accused of hitting another car, a car on which she could see no damage.
I neither believe not disbelieve that's what happened, but I have no way of demonstrating it isn't.

A noise isn't proof of a collision, especially if there is no visible damage. I don't know how it works where you live, but where I am a collision must be visually observed and/or felt from inside the car in order to claim damages. The owner of the other car would be shit out of luck getting her insurer to pay even if he had her details, unless he got her to say she had done it. The way I read it he was trying to intimidate her into admitting it.

He probably was, but he was doing it in a bullying fashion by the sound of it. He had no proof there even was a collision so he had to get her to say she had hit his car. But therein lies the rub- he had no proof there was a collision.

The giant, glaring flaw in that reasoning is that they were not on duty, so none of it applies.

An off duty police officer has just the same powers as an on duty one. They can basically put themselves on duty if they wish with no prior arrangement.

Police are never off duty.

🙄

How do you not know that?

What on earth are you talking about?

Even in a personal situation where they may have a financial stake in the outcome? Doesn't sound ethical to me.
Besides, there was no crime, as there was no proof of a collision. That would be why she hasn't been arrested. You see what I'm saying? It was a difference of opinion. He says she hit him but has no evidence, as a mere sound is not evidence and a police officer would know that. Therefore he had no grounds to detain her.

Exactly! And even where they don't have personal involvement they're apparently not supposed to intervene in minor traffic offences while off duty.

@zerofeeling, you do not seem to understand that this is not a minor traffic violation.

It is a criminal offence for a driver to leave the scene without stopping to exchange details or report the incident under Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. Penalties can include imprisonment, fines, and driving disqualification.

Off-duty police were well within their rights to intervene.