Unpleasant altercation - who was the most unreasonable?

[zerofeeling]

Took my dogs out today and was trying to park in a small space between two cars on a country lane. As I was inching back to fit into the space I heard a loud crunch 😖

The two men from the car behind had just set off on their walk, as I got out of my car one of them was heading back towards me shouting why did I try to park in such a small space. I said sorry and inspected the front of his car - couldn't see any damage at all, and apart from a tiny paint scuff nothing on my car. I said to him 'i can't see any damage, it doesn't look like I hit you'
Man just glanced over at his car then asked me for my details, I asked is that necessary and said again there's no damage. He said that's not the point you have to give your details if you've been in a collision. He was much taller than me and sort of fronting up to me repeating that he wanted my details and me refusing, saying I don't think it was a collision, I think I might have hit something underneath my car. (For info my Mum and a friend have both been scammed on their insurance by people who claimed all kinds of things after very minor prangs)

Then he took an ID wallet out of his pocket and flipped it open to show a photo and badge and said he's Police. I couldn't tell if it was genuine or not. He held his phone up and said he's filming me refusing to comply with the law.
By this time the other man had come back and also filming me and I started to worry - I'm in a secluded area, with two men who are much bigger than me. I told them I felt intimidated and are they trying to scam me?

I got in my car and tried to shut the door but 1st man held onto it to prevent me. I asked if he's trying to detain me and he said no but I will if you don't give me your details, I've identified myself to you as a police officer. I said you've got no right to detain me. Eventually he let go of the door and I had to turn the car round as the lane is a dead end. Once I turned round he said again that I'm breaking the law by refusing to give my details after a collision and he started to recite the Caution they give when you're arrested! I drove away very shaken up, no idea what consequences to expect.

You’re legally obliged to exchange details if there’s been a collision. You heard the noise so should have just each exchanged these. You have (I think) 24 hours to report the incident to the police if the other driver left the scene without giving details. I only know this as similar happened when I was in car with husband and someone drove into the side us and then sped off down the motorway at some speed. I thankfully caught it all on video and thanks to the number of traffic lights she could get too far ahead of her and managed to follow her (turns out she was going to work - whilst also on her phone, and she refused to give her details and her adult kid who was with her said she’d done this before!). All caught on video. Including when she got right in my face goading me and screaming.

Just give your details. Maybe get some sort of dash cam? I’d report to police but explain you felt intimidated which is why you didn’t stay to discuss it with them.

Sounds like you hit the car otherwise what was the noise/crunch. The guys were heavy handed, but most folk get pissed off when someone backs into their vehicle.

Shouting doesn't always mean angry. Could have just been shouting as he thought she was planning to flee (which she was) and to let her know she had been caught. Add in the dramatics from the OP (the bloke being a scammer, really?), I question the accuracy of her re-telling. She's very much painted herself as the poor innocent victim.

No one knows there was an accident though because the man didn't check his car and just got angry. They both heard a crunch, something that was possibly driven over. Because of the aggressive behaviour the OP felt unsafe and left. Who in their right mind doesn't have a look at their car if they think it was damaged?

Threatening/intimidating behaviour is a criminal offence. I'd hate to meet half of you in real life if you go about shouting at strangers. Not as if the OP can't be traced by her reg plus proof it was her driving from the video IF there was actually a collision.

OP hasn’t reported the criminal offence. These two alleged police imposters.

By law you should give your name and address in the event of an accident. In the real world, people don't want to give their home address so a phone number and insurance details is ok plus the other driver will have taken your VRN. Also take photos to show the extent of any damage - or none. Close ups and also from further back to show the location and angles etc.

I would certainly hope that a police officer would not have behaved as that man did. Maybe he was a security guard or prison officer?

Cautioning you as you drive off is just ridiculous - sounds like he was just a jumped up t**t.

Exactly, and that's the part that make me thinks the whole thing was dodgy as hell. Had the OP omitted the part where he pulls a "police ID" I would have thought he's just a guy who had a bad day at the office end off and I may or may not give him my details (I would need more context), it's just the police ID thingy that makes the whole thing seem like a scam.

From OP's post - the call handler advised that I didn't need to report the collision (if one happened) to them, only to our insurers but that the man's behaviour might constitute a public order offence

So yes, she did tell the police about their behaviour.

@Letstheriveranswer I would certainly hope that a police officer would not have behaved as that man did. Maybe he was a security guard or prison officer?

Identifying as a police officer when you're a security guard is a major offence.

I am wondering about people who don't know the difference between driving over something that crunches and making contact with another vehicle that crunches. She side-swiped him trying to get into/out of a space that was too small - plus you would see something in front of your car before you pulled into the space to know if you were going to drive over it... it wouldn't miraculously appear just as you were reversing out of the space. I think some people on this thread should be surrendering their licences to the DVLA!

The call handler was putting her through to another department so she could make a report about the two policemen. She didn’t want to hang on as she was hanging on for a while and said here, that she might report it online. My post did not mention her reporting the collision.

I’m confused as to why if he’s a police officer he can’t pull out a police id in an attempt to show the OP that what he knows what he’s talking about when he’s saying she needs to give her details. He could easily say he was attempting to reassure the OP that he was genuine/honest.

I do totally get the whole Wayne Couzens thing and being a police officer won’t necessarily reassure someone. So the OP if she felt she needed to lock herself in her car/call the police/explain she felt intimidated or even drive away I can get. But ideally saying why she’s doing so. Rather than arguing the toss over whether she hit his car or not, refusing to give details and then driving off which makes her look as dodgy and dishonest as anything.

And she still hasn’t managed to report it to the police as inexplicably they seemed to think she doesn’t need to. Hopefully the man got her registration and can tell that to his insurance because otherwise there’s some poor person out there who has no way of claiming off the OP for any damage she may have caused.

If you had hit my car and refused to give your details I would have been pissed off. Bumper damage can be unseen with the eye, a hairline fracture or damage underneath. It will need to checked by a proper mechanic, not you . You are the CF here and should be ashamed that you left the scene of an accident with out giving your details. I claiming about scamming is BS

@zerofeeling im honestly speechless at the response you've had from PP! Please please follow up with reporting this as he was absolutely out of order. There is zero proof there even was a collision by the sounds of it just a noise which does not automatically equal you hit his car. He sounds very intimidating and out of order and if he acts like this towards the public when hes on duty (if he is indeed police given you didn't really get a chance to check his badge given you were understandably shook up with his demeanor and attitude) then hes the sort that the police are trying to weed out of the force as they shouldn't have the level of authority given to them if they abuse it like this. I hope you are never in a similar situation but if you are then please take a photo of the police badge and lock yourself in your car whilst you phone the police and 1) check the badge is legit 2) ask advice and 3) report the fucker for their behaviour towards you!

Hope you’re ok @zerofeeling - sounds pretty intimidating to be spoken to like that on a country lane.

He was angry before asking for details, hence the OP wanting to leave a situation where she was alone with 2 angry (well, one was angry) men by herself. If he/they had behaved civilly she wouldn't have felt frightened and they could have sorted it like normal adults.

That seems horrible. But you said you heard a crunch and there was a small scuff on your car, so you must have hit him?

I guess you should've taken pictures of where he alleged you got him then just given details. But he wasn't doing himself any favours trying to act all scary and hard with his police badge. It may well have been fake.

I guess you're both in the wrong a little bit. But if he was a scammer and faking being a policeman then obviously he's much more unreasonable than you are.

Fair point.

But you didn’t behave appropriately - you out and out refused to give him your details after you hit his car

If she felt threatened she should have called the police. It’s been handled badly but everyone. Someone crashed into my husband. Said the same, o there’s no damage lucky husband still took details and actually there was £450 worth of damage

At the end of the day this isn't really an AIBU it's simply a case of you breaking the law (currently). I would notify the police and your insurers asap.

But I bet your husband didn't start shouting immediately. That's what I see the difference to be here. If the man had civilly asked for the OPs details it would have had a different outcome, but neither knew if it was a definite collision and he started being aggressive immediately. That on top of presenting a police badge whilst not exactly behaving like one plus no one else about, would absolutely make me want to escape the situation.

She did call the police, she just left the scene first which is entirely appropriate

''Lone plain clothed officers, including those reacting to incidents whilst off-duty, will proactively provide verification of their identity and purpose to any lone woman they need to engage with using a video call to a uniformed supervisor in one of our police operations rooms. This is in addition to showing their warrant card.
The uniformed supervisor in the control room will conduct the necessary checks and provide reassurance that the officer is who they say they are and that they are acting appropriately. They will also ensure the encounter is properly recorded.''

www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/disclosure-2023/april-2023/guidance-alone-policemen-encountering-alone-women/