To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

This. ^

But typically people in our 60s now are the same health wise as people used to be in their 50s. Not doddering old exhausted geriatrics

Planning for your old age doesn’t include every aspect of life though does it. It doesn’t take into account new technology that means they suddenly can’t just speak to an advisor and needs to navigate some new technology systems. Or the change in how GPs operate. Or that they unexpectedly are unable to drive much earlier than anticipated.

what is this future planing that you are both do amazing at that you could have predicted all the changes that have not yet happened but that are going to stymie the fuck out if you in a few years.

I'm early 70s and fortunately don't need help with anything but I do all of my mother's (she's in her 90s). What is it specifically that you want help with?

This generation isn’t better or worse off than any other generation.

Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll just drop dead while still quite young, like my parents did.

Realistically even if well off, if they become too unwell or mentally unwell to be able arrange their own care then you would have to choose between desperate neglect or stepping in. It’s naive to imagine you can outsource everything.

Surely there is an in between stage of being a carer and giving up everything or not doing anything at all?
I work in this sector and families seem to range from people who are massively helping out and doing loads and those whose children live miles away and cannot help at all.
The happiest medium seems to be the families that can afford to get someone in for personal care/cleaning/meal deliveries and then family step in to do other things ie an online shop for them or a trip to the shops once a week, chucking a load in the washing machine or taking it home to wash/dry. Grabbing a prescription from the pharmacy and taking them out to lunch once a week, a short phone call daily so they have someone checking in.
Whilst your parents have their spouses they have the company but I see many elderly people who live on their own and the thing they all have in common is the loneliness, they aren’t infirm enough to go into residential care but perhaps maybe don’t drive anymore.
I was talking to a lady the other day who said out of all her friends she only has 2 left and none of them can drive anymore so rely on public transport/lift, she was saying how lucky she was that her son could drop her off/pick her up from their meeting spot.
I think looking at your older relatives and only seeing them as potential future burdens is very sad.
My own parents are a mixture between fit and active and one having health problems, probably within the next 5-10 years one of them is going to need some sort of level of care, my PIL already have issues of decline but that will be down to my DH and his siblings to look at and decide what to do.
At the moment I allocate 1 morning a week to my less able parent, not to do chores/care but to provide companionship/a trip somewhere, its time i value because i know we’ve got less years ahead of us as time goes on. I won’t do personal care for them and they have the means to fund a private carer in their own home but I would be there to help organise it.

There is a massive difference between giving up your life and becoming a full time carer and helping your parents navigate new online systems, taking them to an assessment because they appear to be suffering some cognitive decline and organising a boiler replacement.

somehow mumsnet seems not to realise this.

Life is not entirely transactional. Also DB did bog all. Said he wanted to remember mum like she had been and she had given him thousands and thousands over the years. I don't start arguments but honestly I don't think it's great. NB I'm not looking for a halo, I just didn't have it in me to walk away.

Nice sneery comment. 👏 Dripping with loathing and contempt for council tenants. Lovely.

Problem is, that when any Council or Housing Association wants an 'older' tenant to move out of their HUGE 3 bed social housing property, (as they are the only one in it,) it's never into a 1 or 2 bed bungalow within 15 minutes walk of where they lived. It's always a shitty ground floor - or first floor - flat in a horrible block in a town or city centre with no garden, and loads of wrong 'uns living there, playing loud music and leaving crap outside in the communal garden, and almost always 4-5 miles away - or further.

Like fuck is anyone going to give up their home of 30, 40, 50 years or more to live in a shitty fucking flat, 5 or more miles away in the middle of town ... The best they can hope for is a 1-bed bungalow - usually 4-5 miles away too. (And that would be a rare occurance.) Bungalows are like gold dust, especially in nice areas, and get snapped up instantly on the rare occasions they come up.

And what @JenniferBooth is also on about (as I have seen other posts by her that I agree with, on other threads,) is the ludicrous and laughable suggestion that some people come up with that once the household income reaches say £30K, anyone in social housing should be booted out. Stupid idea, as a year or two later, they could be on less money again, and they will have lost their secure tenancy. NO-ONE is going to give up the secure social housing they have. Get real FFS! 😆

p.s. re; trying to force out older people/over 60 from a 3 bed house when they have no-one there but themselves or maybe them and their spouse, just remember that for the vast majority of time they have occupied the house, there HAS been more people there - children/teens/young adults. Probably for 30 years in many cases. (Sometimes longer!) It's not like these 1 or 2 people alone have occupied the 3 bed house for 40-50 years FFS!

I help Mil get dressed once a week when I visit with dh - she won't let dh do it because he's a man, I do not want to do it and sometimes I skip visiting to avoid it. When I'm not there, she gets dressed by herself and risks falling. Sil has made shitty comments about my discomfort.
My mother got shitty with me - for getting the carer to help her out when she need the loo. I visit my mother less often because she always puts pressure on me to take her to the loo.
So ime, refusing to do personal care doesn't go down well at all.
Dh and I have planned our old age care - we do not expect our kids to do it.

@EveningSherry Agreed.

When my husband had his stroke the staff in the Acute Stroke ward failed to notice that he'd been compos mentis when admitted, but 3 days later was speaking nonsense.

It turned out that he'd developed a UTI, probably because of insufficient fluids. Staff complained to me that he was refusing to eat and drink.

He had a left hand that didn't work at all following the stroke and a right hand that shook. While I was there, they brought him his afternoon meal - quiche and peas on an ordinary plate with an ordinary knife and fork.

When I asked why he hadn't been assessed by an OT, I was told "Well, now that you've brought it to our attention..."

I also had to insist that they bring in the diabetes specialists. (The stroke staff complained that they'd get the blame if DH got a hypo because of his 'refusal' to eat.)

When the Diabetic Nurse took his bloods, she discovered that his sugar levels were actually sky high. Apparently, this is normal after a stroke, but - somehow - the stroke team was unaware of this.

Could you move far away or go no contact? that would make things easier for you.

I agree there's a real danger of that and it's one of the reasons I'm personally very conflicted about assisted dying, but at the same time caring for elderly relatives is extremely hard. I'm into my eighth year of parent caring now, first my late dad and now my mum, who lives with me and has Alzheimer's, alongside an almost full time job, and I'm on my knees but trying to keep going as my mum would be desperately unhappy in a home, to the point where she would probably just decide to stop living. No help from relatives as I'm an only child and they all live several hours' drive away. I'm grateful she's still alive and I get to see her every day, but at the same time there are days when my life feels like prison.

I can't quite tell from your post whether you judge people who won't care for elderly relatives themselves, but if so I wonder if you've ever had to do it yourself...

You can’t plan for everything (and you didn’t ask me specifically) but here’s what DH and I are doing.

• Saving… this is the single most important thing that we can be doing right now. We’re throwing every dime we can can into our retirement funds. Having money gives you the most choice and flexibility to account for the unknown
• Loose but realistic planning… we know there won’t be anyone to take an active support role. Where we live there are retirement communities that offer a range of services and care options. We are planning to move into long before we actually need the services.

That’s really all you can do and beyond that there’s not a lot of options other than rolling with it as long as possible. But a lot of people don’t even bother with that.

My parents did not expect anything and I lived 2 hrs drive away.
What I did do was help them set up everything to make their lives easier - as they aged.
Think raised toilet seats, hand rails, stair lift, cherry pickers, on line shopping, power of attorney, banking access, gardener, cleaner, taxi number account etc.
After my Mum passed away, I did visit my Dad more regularly but he was pretty good with most things.
By the time he was 90, I saw him every other weekend - checked on food, cooked some meals I knew he liked, froze a portion and took him out for a meal if he wanted. It was not that much work and was appreciated but not expected.

Am not sure I would have had the balls to go as hard core as you are OP. I adored my parents and would have done more but they were very independent till ripe old ages.

I really, vehemently disagree. Just because you and your DH are martyrs doesn’t mean everyone else should be. If you don’t want to do it just say no and don’t. Your parents will have to buy in help or order a taxi. I completely agree with OP, but thankfully so do my parents - they’ve always said it’s not my responsibility to care for them and they want me to live and enjoy my life. So I do. There’s nothing wrong with being selfish, I think some people just attach a moral judgement to it because they’re resentful they haven’t prioritised their own needs.

Once they have been resident in the U.K. for a certain period ? Six months, they are eligible for NHS care

Oh dear!

I think it depends on your relationship with your DPs. With my DF the plan was that he would live with me but he was a joy to be around and he didn't expect anything. Unfortunately I lost him too soon.

With my DM there would be no way in hell I was going to help her with anything.

My family tried to set me up as my DGMs default carer and it run me ragged. Some of my cousins even criticised the way I did things but never did anything themselves. They were busy and they were happy to try to sacrifice my life.

I help my DA and will continue to do so but not my DU. He is selfish and unreliable even after all my DF did for him and his DD.

My parents have been prepping since they retired. Quickly moved to a well supported area, used public transport, lots of new friends through clubs.
Talked openly. Dad fell ill, tough few months and died. They could have put a bloody seat in the shower, like I told 'em, but wouldn't change anything else.
My mum & I review stuff regularly, what works for others, lots of encouragement getting the cleaner etc.

In-laws, DH and siblings like their parents but don't talk much about anything if consequence.
In-laws have been harking on about how clever they were to buy a bungalow 50 years ago and that's them sorted.
They are now late 80s, still the matriarch & patriarch and everyone is too scared to have any sort of conversation leading to change.
There's incontinence, but every toilet area has carpet. No decent sized shower. Multiple tiny step changes. So much clutter that it's impossible to navigate with a frame. Everything is antique matchsticks, so the multiple side tables could bear no weight.
Not a decent new bed bought in the last 30 years. Just one guest bed and a series of second hand, awkward sofa beds in the three other spare rooms.
I tried to address it recently but MIL didn't want to engage I just got the fucking lucky to be in a bungalow.

I would want to help but it's too late already

There is local charities, neighbours, friends, plenty of older people don't have family,
luckily they have the finances to help.

This was me. Two brothers, couldn't or wouldn't see the reality of DM's situation (long time widow) but were glad or may have expected, that I did it all. Doing it all involved being with her, being a companion and spending time with her, taking her out, and being advocate sometimes. They just did not consider it something they would do.

You can be the best planner in the world, but life throws you curve balls. Planning for old age is like making a birth plan when you're pregnant - you can have the best intentions, but more often than not something you didn't anticipate happens and it all has to change. Everyone needs a bit of help sometimes and despite not asking to be born, it's normal in loving families to help each other out a bit!