Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

Thanks for you further comment. I think you're forgetting that, broadly, we are in violent agreement. My original made it clear that NI is a tax by using "with the exception of ..". I think your flogging a dead horse here and trying to make some other point, although I'm not sure what it is exactly. But if you're angry about something else then just for it and get it off your chest.

Enjoy the sunshine. I need to get back to work. 😉

There are massive disadvantages with Italy, well documented if you look. Arab Emirates ! Seriously you’re just ignoring all the massive ossues and problems as regards,living there, then there are the big disadvantages of living in Australia( huge cost of living, harsh climate worsening with global warming et)….

I understand this point of view but because the savings wouldn't be realised for a long time, and in the short term it would cost more, I think it will fudge along for a while yet.

No but they get other advantages.

So where?

Where what?

Where will you go if you leave the country?

Agreed.

The point is clear as set out in the post.
Your sarcasm and passive aggressive winks don't really help adult discussion. Perhaps you just don't like people disagreeing with you, I'm not sure.

I was referring to state pensions in the comment above but actually, public sector pensions are also far more advantageous for the now retired public sector workers than the current workers. That also applies to the private sector. So the difference between old and young applies to both the state and workplace pensions. Yes, public sector employees tend to have better pensions schemes but they also tend to be paid less for a similar level of skill. These things are known in advance so people can make their choices.

If there are 1.4million GP appointments per day and even 50% of could pay a tenner, that would be 7million pounds a day. Those with chronic conditions could have a fee cap, so there is a maximum they would have to pay in a year. The 50% that can't afford it could get a discount or wouldnt have to pay.
Average person visits GP 3 times a year, so that would be £30/year.

Pensioners are the wealthiest group of peole so they all dont bees free medication. There is a vast wealth difference within that group, so the ones who need it should get it and the 27% who has a household wealth of over million would not. And again it should be capped so those with chronic conditions wouldn't be burdened.

Also, private healthcare access should be improved so those that can afford private insurance could use those service and public services would be available to those who cant afford private.

Obviously it isnt a good solution but it is a suggestion.

Exactly. Make is mandatory for employers (at least above certain size or above certain revenue).

It isn’t. We are losing more rich taxpayers than any country in earth to countries with more moderate taxation. We are losing the last of our manufacturing because we have the energy costs in the world, the highest corporation tax in Europe and we have increased employer NI. Consequently, we have fewer jobs, fewer people in employment in good salaries and lower tax contributions than we would have with a more competitive tax regime. The current trajectory is bankrupts by 2027.

@SunD0wn What are the advantages? Employing others? Funding your own work? Paying for everything you need for your business? Yes some is tax deductible but none of it’s free. DH regularly paid over £100,000 pa for professional indemnity! I’m not saying he wanted to be employed but our savings were earned - they were not donated by the government paid for by tax payers! Then to find it’s subject to yet more tax raids is galling. Savings for older life are desirable but all governments seem to do is think they make people rich!

National insurance is meant to contribute towards NHS funding, so employers already have mandatory insurance payments for their employees. We are losing jobs due to over taxation. Burdening employers with more costs won’t help us.

There’s so much wrong with this I don’t know where to start.

Already companies are cutting down on recruitment, add another disincentive in the form of forcing them to fund private healthcare means even less recruitment and unemployment would rise very quickly.

One of the tenets of the NHS is free at the point of delivery GP appointments are the entry point to healthcare and a change would mean a much sicker population very quickly. Like all short sighted “solutions” the impact in the medium to long term would increase costs exponentially.

Realistically, any change would be means tested, so taxpayers who find the NHS would pay for it, while non-taxpayers would get it free. It would be disastrous.

@Genevieva NI is NOT spent on healyhcare. It’s not ring fenced. Years ago people thought it was paying for the old age pension as an insurance scheme! It’s a taxation on business and those in work. It is about time all those in work paid it. That would be fairer. Basically we tax too highly and don’t encourage employment. We need more employment and then we get a higher tax take.

I agree.

My son had a 10 month hospital stay until earlier this year. I lost my job as a result of all the time I had to take off so it was already incredibly financially stressful, not to mention how stressful it was in general. I couldn't imagine also getting a bill for a 10 month hospital stay and wondering if I had to pay for any of it.

I don’t know and I’m a worker so not on benefits but I hate that everyone is picking on people with disabilities and pensioners, my neighbour is a worker and on pip, she has a wheelchair but her benefits can be cut, it’s not fair

I know it’s not ring-fenced. None of our tax is ring-fenced. Hence my phrasing. It is, however, implemented to fund the NHS and state pension. That’s why it exists.

Just taking a short break and spotted your reply; thank you. Actually, I don't think we are disagreeing. I made the point that NI is a tax but not paid by pensioners (most of whom aren't working anyway) and you came back saying the other poster was correct, NI is a tax. So where is the disagreement? Have a good day 😊

It astounds me how eager some people are to dismantle the welfare state.

It’s a result of the welfare state being abused. Nobody, right or left, wants to see people who are genuinely in need through unforeseen circumstances suffer. But the welfare state is no longer that. It’s a free piggy bank dishing out millions. And make no mistake, those millions were paid to the government in tax by hardworking taxpayers.

And for anyone who doesn’t think the welfare state is abused, here is a £50 million abuse to start you off:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c844g4kpjxdo.amp

Agreed 👍