Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

Pensions aren’t a benefit.

They are

They are pre-paid.

No they aren't, they are paid forward. You think the majority of pensioners have paid enough for the state pension? they haven't. And it's unrealistic to expect that but the issue now is demographics. In the 60s it was 5 workers to 1 pensioner. We are now 3:1 & not far off 2:1. This is why no government had done anything about immigration.

We live in a democracy. This is good - but also has the effect of making a swathe of MPs terrified of losing their seats and therefore reluctant to face tough issues, be they on grooming gangs or benefit cuts.

I think this country seems weak at the moment. It’s always “we can’t….” And the only solution seems to be to penalise the schmucks who play by the rules.

That’s a huge difference! What role is this? Not tempted into the private sector?

Why is this always trotted out by clinicians? If you were charging £80 privately, you'd also have to pay a charge for the premises you rent, albeit on an hourly basis, your admin costs, indemnity insurance and probably an accountant. As a self employed person yiu would get no contractual sick pay, annual leave or employers pension contributions.

The solutions are to address the root cause which is that money itself is revered above all else. Greed. Power imbalance designed to continually perpetuate wealth transfer from those with the least to those rolling in it, sitting on it, ring fencing it, creating rules to exclude others from getting a share by hook and by crook.

You think all those mired in financial insecurity haven't tried, tried, tried again to "play the game" ? You think that from their first breath to their last they have revelled in their exclusion, their status of "burden", the judgement?

Now the numbers are growing of people who used to be "alright Jack" due to the speed of changes in the job market thanks to technology, the likes of which can't be compared to previous industrialisation, and are feeling insecure and aggrieved that all if their "hard work" (and investment and inheritance) lacks the promised guarantees and the answer is for those in control to point at the marginalised as the problem. And voilà, those in power keep lining their pockets, and those of their mates, while the rest of us fight among ourselves.

I agree with this. Everything - pensions, freebies, health care- is skewed towards benefiting the elderly.
We have a romanticised view of pensioners in the UK. We still have lingering admiration of them fighting in the wars, when actually the vast majority of even very old pensioners were just children during the war now.
I think we need to lose this largesse to be honest. My generation (I am 58) have had ample opportunity and encouragement to save for their retirement. Many have chosen not to do so. Why should people who have not paid into a workplace pension be bailed out by those who gave and younger people who still are on top of high housing and childcare fees?

I don't know and I agree with you op. Every single person wants more from the system, yet practically nobody is prepared to contribute more. I'm looking at the reversal of recent government decisions (the review of which I actually applaud, though the outcome - particularly raising the WFA threshold by so much - not so much) and wondering where all the money is going to come from. Particularly in the light of commitments to increase defence spending to 5%.

@nearlylovemyusername

Why is this so much higher than in other developed economies?

I didn't think it was in percentage terms? Quite a few European countries have seen increases in disability post pandemic.

Everything - pensions, freebies, health care- is skewed towards benefiting the elderly.

Why are we not lauding the triple lock? Why are prescriptions free for over 60s? Why don't people working past pension age pay NI?

though the outcome - particularly raising the WFA threshold by so much - not so much)

Why such outrage about means testing it? And now households with incomes up to 70k can get it, it's ridiculous.

Why don't you go to private then??

Less flexibility? can be made redundant easily? less generous sick pay? expected to work harder? total package incl pension is still the same? couldn't pass interviews? this higher rate is for higher band? want to stay in public sector for the great good of society?

Why?

Wow, I love your suggestions!!!

Regarding retirement. I am 65. In the last year or two I am far more tired than I used to be and have to pace far more. I wouldn’t like to have to carry on full-time until 68. Happily I can reduced my hours and am doing so.

It's easy to say what should happen and that people should work until they are 75, but I might venture that those saying it should keep an eye on how they might feel when they get there.

Do we want to return to times when the poor had no heating, lighting, regular food three times a day, wore rags and went down the mine or into service aged 12/13? However, we have lost balance and I question why benefits have to be paid in cash rather than utility keys, food parcels containing fruit/veg/protein etc, every two to three days, etc.

It isn't about increasing taxes for the rich, I agree, but everyone could pay a penny more and some idiocies could and should stop. The winter fuel debacle was ludicrous and ill thought out but my 89 year old mother and MIL who pay 40% tax on their pension and investment income, didn't need it. Neither do they or DH and I need free prescriptions and eye tests.

There are many universal services that need to be targetted, the HV service for example, which costs a fortune and delivers little. The NHS needs a long hard think about what is funded and how it's run moving forward with a focus on illness.

Generally this country needs to forget the mantra that 50% of young people should have a degree and focus and value the trades more and regulate them more as on the Continent. Young people also need to be equipped with the skills to run small businesses. Perhaps that starts with the dismantling of the vast zoos called comprehensive schools and bringing back smaller schools more suited to community and the needs of individual children rather than GCSE factories. That may have the biggest posotive impact on child and adolescent health which I am certain is more to do with a wholly dysfunctional education system than it is to do with social media.

I think 75 is too much of a stretch. 70 seems more reasonable.

Absolutely.
Like every generation, there are wealthy pensioners and struggling pensioners.
Yet we always judge them as a homogenous demographic in need of help and any attempt to unravel this to something sensible is greeted with howls of protest.
Thezwsy things stand, we are sacrificing thectaxpayers of the future to benefit the taxpayers of the past.

Involving themselves/starting unecesaary "wars" acts of terror.

Do we want to return to times when the poor had no heating, lighting, regular food three times a day, wore rags and went down the mine or into service aged 12/13? However, we have lost balance and I question why benefits have to be paid in cash rather than utility keys, food parcels containing fruit/veg/protein etc, every two to three days, etc.

Why is so much tax getting funnelled into private landlords. Long term more council housing is more cost effective.

Agree with your point that other alternatives to cash may be better.

It isn't about increasing taxes for the rich, I agree, but everyone could pay a penny more and some idiocies could and should stop. The winter fuel debacle was ludicrous and ill thought out but my 89 year old mother and MIL who pay 40% tax on their pension and investment income, didn't need it. Neither do they or DH and I need free prescriptions and eye tests.

Agree.

One thing I've noticed with some friends who have older teens is that they cannot find any work. I (like most of my friends) started at 14 with a paper round, at 15 helped in a shop etc. That helped my independence and mental health. After becoming aware I've noticed in places where you would expect to see teens working (supermarkets, restaurants, shops) and I just don't see any.

Imo there's a number of reasons for it. One reason is the current NHS model, which we probably need to change. Free at the point of delivery is simply unsustainable and, it seems to me, we need to think about our individual needs being underwritten by health insurance. Most other European nations do this and, broadly, their systems seem to be very bit as good or better than the UK. And because UK's is free, it raises expectations imo. One example is Drs appointments. In France, when you book an appointment with your Dr, you pay about 35€ (£30) ish. When you attend the appointment, you get it back; if you fail to attend, you lose your money! There's a real incentive to attend. If you're in hospital for any length of time you'll get a bill for food. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me given you'd be paying for your own food if you were at home. Obviously there are exceptions (those on benefits etc) and in any case, cancer, cardiac, stroke and a number of other issues are always free. The costs you might incur is covered by your health insurance which you tailor to your perceived needs (dentistry, spectacles, heating aids ...).

I think 75 is too much of a stretch. 70 seems more reasonable.

My pension age is already 68, Im not prepared to wait till 70.

@MyObservations I know the French system but the trouble with changing systems is how do you sort the interim period? Plus businesses normally have higher contributions but people have complained about NI increases here.

I also think it's impossible to look at one element of a country, you need to look at the whole. Housing particularly rent is generally cheaper then here, childcare more subsidised etc so people accept higher taxes.

And don't forget the lower pension age!

Re: increasing income tax

Working people are getting increasingly frustrated at the thought of further tax rises. Work should pay but it currently does not always seem to be that way, particularly if someone rents a property rather having a mortgage on a property. This seems to be particular the case with people with children earning under £40k pa who are in rental accommodation. Work doesn’t pay.

Resentment is building.

This will lead to more mental health issues in the current working population. I feel really daft sometimes working full time, making compromises in my own /my family’s lifestyle, so that I am financially self sufficient when there is an alternative.

I do think younger people in particular feel the social contract is somewhat broken & I think that is one reason for the increase in mental health disorders.

Also wages in the UK are pretty crap & have stagnated for years. Low interest rates masked a lot of this but unfortunately the jug is up.