Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

Housing & turning it into an asset/the main area of growth in the economy has fucked so many things & created huge inequality.

They need to raise state pension age to 75 or so. People are living a lot longer.

Let me guess this won't impact you....

I agree with this 100%.
'Tax The Rich!' On repeat loop with no explanation of who The Rich are (other than definitely not the poster) or how to actually do it.
''Tax Amazon' as if it were an easy solution that no Governement has ever thought about.
Genius.
In a similar vein, 'Get rid of greedy private landlords!' In any post about housing, followed by the solution of 'Build more houses!' when asked where people would actually live.

If only these posters ran the country, everything would be sorted in no time 😂

The rich is always people who are richer than the person saying it.

I'd be affected by this but still think it needs to happen. When the state pension was introduced it was pretty much set in line with the average life expectancy. Life expectancy has increased massively but the retirement age has only moved a little.

On the subject of housing:

https://www.actiononemptyhomes.org/

I mean, if house building isn't the answer, maybe something could be done with all the empty houses knocking about

@Lioncub2020 but healthy life expectancy hasn't increased....

The rich is always people who are richer than the person saying it.

A lot of comparable countries to us tax the lower & middle earners more. But one issue here is housing & childcare costs are generally higher.

So we have the worst of both we spend an absolute fortune keeping people live with poor life quality,.

How many people will then live to claim it? How many will still be able to work until they claim it?

There is too much intergenerational inequality and too much burden on PAYE vs other taxes.

You can't tell younger people you won't get a pension till 75 (many public sector pensions are linked to state age now) but you need to pay more tax to protect winter fuel, triple lock etc. Well you can but you will just see increased brain drain. We need our young people, demographically we are pretty fucked.

So we have the worst of both we spend an absolute fortune keeping people live with poor life quality,.

We likely need to have a debate on who we spend the NHS money on. Assisted dying is an obvious solution but apparently we can't afford that!

That might just be OK if you are doing a job where you can sit down for long periods of time
Do you really want a lot of old and knackered nurses for example?
I used to be a mental health nurse ,it's physically and mentally tiring.

Yes but the issue is life expectancy has moved but healthy life expectancy not so much. So we are living longer but not necessarily able to work much longer.
In 1950, the life expectancy was about 69, so 5 years after retirement for men.
Now it's 79 for men and 83 for women. Do you fancy working until you are 78?
One thing I think could be done to raise cash is the ridiculously-generous Government contributions to public sector pensions. My DH works in IT and regularly sees jobs offering 20%+ contribution, which is crazy when the average private sector employer contributes around 3-5%. The salaries are usually towards the generosity side too, which kind if disproves the mantra that public sector get better pensions because the salaries are poor. They are not.

You have buried it in there but again your attacking people with ADHD and with mental health disorders most people with ADHD and autism work my daughter works my middle child wants too might need the odd accommodation like things being written down for him to refer too as his memory is shocking but he is a solid worker but the baby of the family? Highly unlikely he will ever be able to work perhaps if the NHS medicate him he might but again the NHS need to medicate him

People with mental health issues need to be treated medically but the NHS just don't do that they throw a few pills at them in a vague feel better gesture that's if they are feeling generous if they are treated they can work un treated they cycle and are disruptive to work environments

We do need to stop allowing everyone who comes here to stay return criminals to their home country have a proper system to assess people's right to stay remove them if they break the law other countries do why can't we? There was a man from Afghanistan who raped a 15 year old the judge said it was a cultural misunderstanding and we shouldn't return him rape is illegal in Afghanistan where is the cultural misunderstanding? We keep everyone rapists murderers all sorts why? They bring zero value and joy to life so why keep them?

Every time there is a change in government they redo/scrap things Labour once did a huge study into the education system lost the next election and the study was scrapped billions of pounds wasted consultation with teachers parents everyone wasted it could have worked too

If this happens, I mean taxes and NI go up, the economy will collapse.

It's in a very bad shape already (just read some threads about people trying to find job), anything more than we pay now will simply kill it.

I wish people would just start being honest.

The undertone of many of these posts is repugnant.

The sick, the disabled, the elderly, the "feckless" - sweeping statements about the "fact" that they are draining resources that could be better spent elsewhere, that they are a problem requiring solutions which are often more punitive than practical or realistic.

You know they're people, right? They bleed the same as you, they age the same as you, many of them are victims of circumstance, much of that circumstance is down to the political and economic games played by our "rulers".

What comes across is the idea that these people, those struggling the most, are the root cause of everyone else's inability to get rich. If only we could solve that problem eh?

We've been here before of course, because we never learn.

And I'll save you the bother:

Hyperbole.
Emotional blackmail.
Naive.
Bleeding heart.
State dependent.
Boomer (Gen X actually)
Word salad (choose your own dressing).

This true.
But their could be a sensible discussion around phased retirement.
For example - my Dad worked until about 65 full time, then until about 72, 2-3 days per week. He claimed his state pension at 65, and used this to top up his earnings and then claimed his private pension at 72.

Not everyone wants to stop work at 65, but few want to work full time, some may be physically unable. There could be an option to claim 50% of state pension and work 50% for example, keeping those with valuable skills and knowledge in work place to pass these on to younger generations, reducing pension bill and keeping people active. I can see that since fully retiring my Dad had become much more sedentary, forgetful and gets ill more, so there may be some benefits for older people health wise in continuing to work in a limited capacity.

Pensions aren’t a benefit. They are pre-paid. The problem is the government just puts the money in the general pot and pisses it up the wall on current spending commitments instead of investing it. If they were a company we’d accuse them of misappropriation of funds.

There is a lot that could be cut. Douglas Carswell has indicated that 8 whole government departments could go completely. We have over 300 quangos with taxpayer funded unelected officials making decisions that used to be taken in Parliament. Multi academy trusts have an unnecessary and expensive layer of bureaucracy above schools. Benefits for the poor and disabled are a lovely thing to offer, but should be subject to democratic mandate so the public have transparent oversight of the costs and benefits now and future projections. If we can’t afford current levels of expenditure then MPs have to make tough choices on that to cut.

This exactly.
Our welfare bill (excl state pensions) is one of top 3 spend items.
Why is this so much higher than in other developed economies?

OK.
So what's your solution?
Lots of posts on this thread saying how awful other posters are, but no solutions.

Public sector pensions are good I agree, but salaries aren't always as good as private for healthcare professionals. I earn approx £30ph in nhs, same role privately I could charge £80 -£100 an hour.

Genuine question - why don't you?
I often wonder this when I see posters saying they could earn much more than they do for seemingly the same job.
Mind you, I did once unpick one if these claims and it turned out the comparison was somewhat skewed as it was a LA solicitor earning £40k who claimed she could earn £150k for the same job when actually she meant if she moved several rungs up the ladder and moved to a city law firm.
The real comparison would a planning lawyer in a practice in her town which woukd pay about the same as the LA.

The sick, the disabled, the elderly, the "feckless" - sweeping statements about the "fact" that they are draining resources that could be better spent elsewhere, that they are a problem requiring solutions which are often more punitive than practical or realistic.

We do have to acknowledge that we have changing demographics which is something we have never seen before. We already have more over 65 yr olds than under 15 yr olds, how can that possibly be sustainable? There has to be conversations rather than burying our heads in the sand.

I believe in a safety net & think many who are disabled do not get enough help. However we do have to look at why so many people are unwell, what can we do to keep the population healthier etc The new benefits reform is crap, it's going to be harsher on new entrants but not look at current claimants. That doesn't make sense but is often how we do things.

Many people seem entirely comfortable with the punitive measures imposed on younger people, eg lack of housing, a shit job market, education costs. So many aren't even having dc now because they feel they can't afford them.

Lots of posts on this thread saying how awful other posters are, but no solutions.

People don't want to acknowledge issues because it's uncomfortable. Name calling is presumably easier.