Am I wrong for stopping ex from taking daughter on holiday?

[BusyLimeZebra]

Please hear me out, I really need to know if I’m a monster!!

I have 3 children (DS 14, DS 10, DD 8) with my ex, and he is with a new partner with 1 child (6 years old).

My daughter’s Dad was due to go away with his new partner in September to meet their friends abroad. However, his partner couldn’t get her ex to look after her daughter for 2 nights, so when we were swapping over one day he told me they were bringing her daughter with them instead (he also mentioned how this was annoying and an inconvenience as it’s an adults trip). I was surprised that they’d take her daughter out of school, the first week back, instead of rearrange their trip.

Shortly after this, he suggests that our daughter comes along too and references her keeping the other child company. My daughter has been desperate for a holiday with him after her Dad, his new partner and her daughter went abroad in the summer, and she got very jealous (especially after he video called her and showed the pool / games room - she burst into tears after that call)

I said I wasn’t sure this was a good idea because of:
a) it’s the first week of Year 5
b) her brothers aren’t invited and would they be ok
c) our schedules would mean I don’t see her for 3 weeks

I explained my concerns but he had already told my daughter about the trip and sold her the dream about hiking Italian mountains, climbing, etc. His partner also showed her videos of all the things she could do there. He told me I’d be adding to her jealousy (as another holiday would happen with the step sibling without her) if I stopped her going. She was obviously set on going. I was furious when she came back and said ‘Daddy says you haven’t said yes to Italy yet’, it was totally unfair to put her and I in that position.

They are driving to Italy in their camper so there’s no flight/accommodation cost, and the dates are only set to be the ones they have because they are meeting friends (friends have no kids). I suggested they change the date to the week before (last week of summer hols) so all 3 kids could come, plus it’s his week with the kids. He wouldn’t change it because that wouldn’t align with his friends.

In the end I was backed into a corner but didn’t feel comfortable at all. I said I’d agree because I didn’t want to let her down but going forwards we’d need boundaries and decisions like this shouldn’t be made without me. I asked for mediation for a parenting plan, and he said no.

BUT, then two days later I found out the law had changed for term time holidays, that we’d both be fined, and it would mean any further trips with her brothers would warrant an increased fine / court action. I raised this within and he dismissed it, said I should do what I want and he should too, and any increase fines / court action are what they are. On top of everything else, this then tipped me over and I wasn’t comfortable with this at all, back tracked, and explained I wouldn’t support it. I have suggested neither of us take them out in term time so it’s fair. I have also explained to my daughter the legal implications and whilst she was upset, she understands. I felt like I had to tell her before she continued to get her hopes up, but perhaps I shouldn’t have done, I just didn’t want her to be getting excited about something I was felt I had to stop.

Once I told him I was not going to support it, he called me emotionally abusive, said I’m being controlling, that she has picked out clothes, and that I’m a horrible person and she will hate me. He said he will take me to court and blocked me. I really just don’t feel comfortable with it, but it seems if I have an opinion or disagree I’m a monster. I do feel like because I’ve done this he will try to turn her against me though.

There is much more to our coparent relationship and various problems, but I won’t bring that into this as I really want a neutral opinion on this and whether I’m being unfair.

Also one more thing - he has taken them on numerous holidays in the past (in the holidays) and I’ve always loved that they go with him, this is the first time in 5 years that I’ve ever disagreed on something like this.

If you’ve got to the end, please can someone advise if I’m in the wrong? Will court approve this? Will my daughter hate me?

I’ve tried to make the best decision with the facts I have, it’s so hard to know sometimes, but I’m open to being told I’m wrong. I really do just want to get it right by the kids, so please be honest!

I’d be astonished if a court ruled in his favour on a holiday in school time!!

I think it's a bit harsh to agree to her going and then to change your mind. You may have felt backed into a corner but still.

I think he should agree to cover your half of the fine if you do get one (on the occasions I've done school time holidays the school hasnt persued the fine. Your school might be different)

So is he suggesting taking just 1 out of 3 kids with him on holiday!? What about the other 2?

I think on that basis alone I'd probably say no. Take them all or take none of them. That's incredibly unfair. Unless they didnt want to go?

They were not invited as it’s our 10yo first year at secondary and our 14yo goes into his GCSE year. From what I know, it was sort of asked like ‘you don’t mind do you?’ which gave them no space to be honest anyway.

My 10yo actually called me say it wasn’t very unfair and she was very lucky, and his Dad then offered him a boys trip to the Lake District as an alternative. There was no offer to change the date to accommodate him.

Our 14yo is on the spectrum, an introvert, with social anxiety, who stays in his room all of the time (something I’m working on, and trying to get his Dad to see it’s more than just a teenager and he needs support). He doesn’t have a close relationship with his Dad at all. He didn’t want to go (doesn’t want to go anywhere) but he would still have thrived if he had actually gone. Things like this are great for character building and would have been so good for him. Who knows what he will think if it happens and he grows up and realises he wasn’t involved, but perhaps he’d be fine.

Eh - I would let her go. You already said she could and I really don't think it's a hill to die on. Getting him to take you to court to agree will just cause massive animosity (though I doubt court would agree, it's just not worth the aggro for both of you). Tell him he will need to pay both fines though assuming you do get fined..

There is a lot to unpick here but from what I can gather, your daughter wants to go and your sons don’t/aren’t too bothered?

I would let her go OP

It shouldn’t impact taking your other children on holiday regarding fines. But the fine should be split between you.
I’d be a bit suss that he is only inviting her to babysit though.

You were unreasonable to say yes in the first place based on him only taking one of them. But you’ve said yes now and he could easily manipulate this into it being all about how you are the ogre and could effect your relationship with your daughter.
I think I would say to him that she can go IF he gives you the money upfront for the fine (because things have changed and you WILL get fined) and also if you change things so you get to see her a few days before he goes and the same when she gets back.
I would also be very clear that this will not happen again. You can then have a chat with your daughter about how you have agreed with daddy that this one time she can go but unless her brothers go with her next time and it is in school holidays then the answer will be no and daddy knows that. This stops all of this shit going forward as she knows the score and is old enough to understand all of that

I think you are right to not let her go. It’s not fair on the other two, it’s school time with both of you fined, (bet he won’t pay your share) and the impact that has should you need to take kids out in an emergency, and a holiday is not an emergency

lets be honest the only reason he is taking her is to entertain his partners daughter so he doesn’t have to and that’s not a good enough reason

All kids should be treated the same.
Sounds like daughter has been invited to keep the other kid busy so they can enjoy their adult holiday.
He should never have discussed it with DD, videos should never have been shown. That is an adult decision and she shouldn't have been put in the middle.
Dd should never have been told to ask you to respond about giving permission.

You say that you can't disagree or you are a monster. Sounds like you caved despite knowing it wasn't right in your opinion. You need to work on this (i understand how hard it is!).

You also say there are lots of other ongoing coparenting issues. Honestly, it sounds like some emotional abuse but I could be reading far too much in to it and linking it too much to my own experience.

I would not be agreeing to three weeks without seeing my child.
I wouldn't agree due to thr way the kid was bribed into being obsessed with going before an adult conversation and agreement was in place because if you let him away with it once he will continue to put the kids in the middle and discuss adult issues with them.
Maybe consider some therapy to work through the people pleasing/shying away from conflict (I am working on it too!)
If this holiday had been arranged around the children, it would have taken place during the school holidays, he should have offered to accept the fine, he would be eager to attend mediation.
I wouldn't be letting her go.

The other issue is that missing the first week of a new school year could be tricky as by the time your daughter is back, seats will be assigned and she will have missed the welcome back to school bit and gentle start to the year. It may impact on her settling in to Y5.
Also - how much time has she spent with the younger girl? Staying in a camper van can be quite intense. It sounds like lots of driving. How independent is your daughter? Will she be happy being looked after by Dad’s partner in the showers etc if Dad can’t go in? have they done a weekend or so something in the UK to see how it goes?
Lots of issues I think - and I think you are right to say no.

He wanted an adult only holiday. He only wants to take her because it would be less work than having to entertain a single 6yr old.
It doesn't bode well for her having a good quality family holiday, for that reason I wouldn't let her go.

I would have let her go tbh. He can't take them all in a campervan anyway. Not enough room. He pays any fines though that's the deal

It’s a really crappy situation to have been put in OP but I would let her go, you’d already said yes and she’s looking forward to it and right or wrong, your decision doesn’t outrank his.

Not a hill to die on.

One and done, next time no.

“He said he will take me to court”

And the court will not agree to your DD going in holiday in term time. I think he is being very unreasonable by suggesting it, and if I were your DD’s teacher, I’d be most put out. Sorry, but it’s not OK to send the message to your children that school is an optional extra that you only attend when there’s nothing more interesting happening. I think your DH is outrageously unreasonable - basically, he wants your DD to help out with her half sister. You are quite right to refuse. Tell your DD that if the holiday were in holiday time, of course she could go, but that holidays in term time are breaking the law and you’d be fined, as he will be for the other DC.

It's really cruel to have changed you mind like that. Given that your boys are ok with it, I think that she should go. I think that your DD will hold on to this (you asked). The boys trip now can't happen, because that would be a double blow. It sounds like a holiday that would also be a teaching tool and a really good experience. I don't agree with that all children have to be taken, or none. It gives a DD a chance to have one-to-one time with her Dad, without older brothers. My DD takes her children away individually. It means that each gets to do age appropriate activities. I think you've got this one wrong.

Actually I think you will find that her decision probably does outrank his as without her permission he cannot go.

At the start of the post, I thought your ex sounded quite reasonable, you’d all segued into a comfortable co-parenting two families situation, and he wanted to spend some time with his daughter (and her to spend some time with her half-sister)

By the end of it, he was telling you you’re a horrible person and your daughter would end up hating you (probably enabled by him).

That is emotional abuse and IS NOT OK irrespective of what decision you make regarding taking her out of school.

Whatever the outcome, I hope it plays out to your satisfaction, and you can feel relieved this nasty manipulative man is no longer your partner. Hugs x

This.

I think you're right not to let her go - as others have said he just wants her to go to keep his girlfriend's daughter occupied, though hey could easily fall out stuck together all the time in a camper van.

No trips in school term is a very reasonable rule for both of you - missing the start of the year is a big deal, even in year 5.

I think you need to go to mediation to sort out a better co-parenting plan - I found having a set of agreed rules with my ex really worked.

If you can't agree in mediation, going to court isn't the worst thing in the world.

Try not to feel bad about changing your mind - we don't always get it right first time, your DD understands, and you're doing what's right for her.

I don't believe that any court would agree to him taking her away in the first week of term just for a holiday. Your ex is being selfish, it's not about your daughter, it's about what suits him. You've been very reasonable in saying she can go during the holidays.

I only think YABU because you already told her she could go. I think because of this you should let her go and say to your ex, if you get any fines he will have to pay the whole lot.

Shes 8, I doubt they want the 8 year old to babysit the 6 year old!

I think I’d let her go. Definitely wouldn’t get courts involved, that would just cause a shit show. Can you request term time leave (we can at our local school so no fine but I know it differs from council to council)?