Am I wrong for stopping ex from taking daughter on holiday?

[BusyLimeZebra]

Please hear me out, I really need to know if I’m a monster!!

I have 3 children (DS 14, DS 10, DD 8) with my ex, and he is with a new partner with 1 child (6 years old).

My daughter’s Dad was due to go away with his new partner in September to meet their friends abroad. However, his partner couldn’t get her ex to look after her daughter for 2 nights, so when we were swapping over one day he told me they were bringing her daughter with them instead (he also mentioned how this was annoying and an inconvenience as it’s an adults trip). I was surprised that they’d take her daughter out of school, the first week back, instead of rearrange their trip.

Shortly after this, he suggests that our daughter comes along too and references her keeping the other child company. My daughter has been desperate for a holiday with him after her Dad, his new partner and her daughter went abroad in the summer, and she got very jealous (especially after he video called her and showed the pool / games room - she burst into tears after that call)

I said I wasn’t sure this was a good idea because of:
a) it’s the first week of Year 5
b) her brothers aren’t invited and would they be ok
c) our schedules would mean I don’t see her for 3 weeks

I explained my concerns but he had already told my daughter about the trip and sold her the dream about hiking Italian mountains, climbing, etc. His partner also showed her videos of all the things she could do there. He told me I’d be adding to her jealousy (as another holiday would happen with the step sibling without her) if I stopped her going. She was obviously set on going. I was furious when she came back and said ‘Daddy says you haven’t said yes to Italy yet’, it was totally unfair to put her and I in that position.

They are driving to Italy in their camper so there’s no flight/accommodation cost, and the dates are only set to be the ones they have because they are meeting friends (friends have no kids). I suggested they change the date to the week before (last week of summer hols) so all 3 kids could come, plus it’s his week with the kids. He wouldn’t change it because that wouldn’t align with his friends.

In the end I was backed into a corner but didn’t feel comfortable at all. I said I’d agree because I didn’t want to let her down but going forwards we’d need boundaries and decisions like this shouldn’t be made without me. I asked for mediation for a parenting plan, and he said no.

BUT, then two days later I found out the law had changed for term time holidays, that we’d both be fined, and it would mean any further trips with her brothers would warrant an increased fine / court action. I raised this within and he dismissed it, said I should do what I want and he should too, and any increase fines / court action are what they are. On top of everything else, this then tipped me over and I wasn’t comfortable with this at all, back tracked, and explained I wouldn’t support it. I have suggested neither of us take them out in term time so it’s fair. I have also explained to my daughter the legal implications and whilst she was upset, she understands. I felt like I had to tell her before she continued to get her hopes up, but perhaps I shouldn’t have done, I just didn’t want her to be getting excited about something I was felt I had to stop.

Once I told him I was not going to support it, he called me emotionally abusive, said I’m being controlling, that she has picked out clothes, and that I’m a horrible person and she will hate me. He said he will take me to court and blocked me. I really just don’t feel comfortable with it, but it seems if I have an opinion or disagree I’m a monster. I do feel like because I’ve done this he will try to turn her against me though.

There is much more to our coparent relationship and various problems, but I won’t bring that into this as I really want a neutral opinion on this and whether I’m being unfair.

Also one more thing - he has taken them on numerous holidays in the past (in the holidays) and I’ve always loved that they go with him, this is the first time in 5 years that I’ve ever disagreed on something like this.

If you’ve got to the end, please can someone advise if I’m in the wrong? Will court approve this? Will my daughter hate me?

I’ve tried to make the best decision with the facts I have, it’s so hard to know sometimes, but I’m open to being told I’m wrong. I really do just want to get it right by the kids, so please be honest!

Let her go, its not a very long holiday and she obviously wants to go. She's not in a particularly important year at school.

Make it very clear to your ex that he pays the entire fine if it comes to that. And that this is a one off, if he wants to take her away again it must not be in term time.

He’s obviously a selfish, unreasonable and abusive person, whose coparenting leaves a lot to be desired, but ultimately she was told she could go by you and has got excited and it feels cruel for her to lose out on that. If they’re going in the camper van then aside from wanting to see his friends there’s no good reason why they can’t travel at a different time. I’d tell him I’m more than happy to support the holiday once the dates have been rearranged for the holidays but that he also needs to take responsibility for managing any difficult feelings his boys experience as a result of the exclusion.

let him take you to court. Your daughter understands about the fine, and so that should be clear to her.

What happens if she does go, and you get a fine? can you refuse to pay based on having had to go to court over this?

It’s not ideal, but I’d let her go, especially as you’d already agreed. Just accept the fine (ask him to cover your part) and then neither take them out in term time again.

I wouldn't be letting her go. I am with my kids' father so maybe easy to say.

When I read this I just thought what an absolute cxnt your ex is and Im sorry Op you have to deal with this.

How horrible to read he went off on holiday with new shared child without thinking of the older ones - this is the sort of thing you read 'new step mums' talking about on mumsnet all the time as totally fair - and you can see hear the lifelong hurt and emotional damage it causes the other children of the father.

Stand your ground.

When your daughter is older she will understand you were right and putting her interests first

He should be planning a holiday FOR his three children not around the timings of random adult friends.

I’d forget about the threat of court if I were you. He’s being utterly ridiculous if he thinks that a judge will criticise you for abiding by the school regulations.

If you do let her go, then I’d insist on him being responsible for paying your fine (and that he pays up before the holiday, not afterwards, or you’ll never see it. I’d also explain to your DD that her dad is going to see his friends so she needs to understand that he’s probably not going to be centering his holiday around what’s fun for children and that her role is going to be largely keeping the other child company. It will help her adjust her expectations because if she thinks it’s going to be a week of water parks and beach trips, she’s going to be a bit fed up when she realises the situation.

I wouldn't have agreed in the first place but now you have its going to be more damaging to refuse. He sounds emotionally abusive though guilt tripping you etc and as he was inflexible with dates I'd be telling him to pay your fine as well as his

I think yanbu to say no to term time and no to splitting the siblings, it's not fair.
Especially as your daughter is only being invited to keep her step sister busy so the adults can chat to each other.
In my view the new gf should have flown back a couple of days early or arranged alternative care for her daughter and neither girls should be out of school.
I bet the child free friends aren't happy about having kids there either!
Yab a little u to have said yes then change mind , but you say daughter understands.

Ex is being abusive to you in his outburst - that's DARVO.

I think you need to gently explain to your daughter that if daddy wants to take
You on holiday he needs to do it on holidays and take all of you or it's not fair.
Don't show her videos of him
On trips without her.
He needs to stop that - I'd never do that to my son! I don't even tell him I'm going cycling on my bike without him as he has such FOMO!

Let her go. She will have a great time!

Sounds like you’ve worked hard to have a good parenting relationship with your ex. Yes this is a curve ball and this may have thrown you off, but it will be fine.

I also don’t believe you have to take all children everywhere. Your son will be fine when explained to him the trip is with two young girls!

You are worrying about fines that may or may not happen! Cross that bridge if you get there. First week of year 5 is not the end of the world! It would be different for secondary school for me x

This

I’d probably let her go as you said yes and feels mean to back track, but he should be giving you the money for the fine. He only wants her to go to entertain the other child by sounds of it though.

I would also plan something special and fun for the kids to make up for it - holiday if you can afford it or a hotel weekend away by the seaside in September while it's still warm or October half term to make up for it and give them something else to be excited about

Sounds like they want the daughter there to curb the boredom of the girlfriends 6year old daughter. Shame he can't change it and take all of his kids to be honest.

I'm really surprised that so many PPs are saying that you should let her go as you initially agreed and she'll be dissapointed. Kids need to learn how to deal with dissapointment, it helps to build resilience.

It's OK to change your mind about something when you've thought about it more deeply- another thing your daughter needs to know is OK to do.

OP can't constantly compensate for her ex's crappy parenting decisions eg video calling her from a kid friendly holiday he's on with his girlfriend and her daughter.

OP you have lots of good reasons to refuse your ex's request, please don't feel guilted into going back on your decision

I agree

Your ex and his partner really want an adults only holiday with their friends. This may sound insane, but if your 3 will come to you while their dad is away, and if your daughter gets on OK with the partner's daughter, could you offer to take the partner's daughter too (assuming her school is reachable from where you live)? That way no one misses the first week of school, no one gets fined, the two girls can go along on the Lake District holiday with the boys, and your ex can stop kicking off because he got what he originally wanted. The children all get told that plans have changed because of the new tightened-up rules about missing school.

I actually don't think it would do your daughter a huge amount of harm to miss the first week of school, but (1) I really doubt this particular holiday is going to be fun for the children and (2) I think it's a really dangerous precedent for your ex to think that he can get his way about anything he wants just by telling the children it's happening without consulting you.

And yes, as a PP just said above, your ex's behaviour - he called me emotionally abusive, said I’m being controlling, that she has picked out clothes, and that I’m a horrible person and she will hate me - is pure, classic DARVO; that jumped out to me reading your original post. On the one hand, this whole situation seems to be a one-off, but on the other hand it's so bad that I'd really worry on the children's behalf that their dad seems to have no qualms at all about manipulating and even hurting them (the video call on the last trip!!) in the service of getting his way and doing whatever HE wants.

(Edited because something strange happened with the quote formatting.)

Not all your children will get the same things at the same time op, this becomes more apparent as they get older and their needs change. It sounds like a great experience for her whatever the circumstances so don’t step in her way just because her dad’s a cunt. It’ll be up to him to even the score. A week out of school for an epic holiday will make little, if any difference to her education realistically. Chill out and let her enjoy the experience.

I wouldn’t of agreed on the basis of cherry picking one of his three children purely
because he wants a babysitter.

He doesn’t want any of the children there really if he did he would change the dates.

He should also cover the entire fine upfront.

Feel for all his children. He makes her jealous then only wants her as a babysitter dismissing his two sons and backing you into a corner.

You aren’t being unreasonable at all. But I would probably still let her go. It’s a great opportunity for her to spend time with her dad. We don’t get fined where we live - ask him to cover your fine and let her go

points one and 2 are a concern, you not seeing her can be sorted by both of you being flexible and changing contact arrangements.

I personally didn’t let my dc miss school for holidays so that’s the dealbreaker. Not taking her brothers is a concern but could be sorted by taking them separately

Why do you have to actually take ALL kids everytime you go somewhere? I never did and didn't feel the need to either.

He didn’t want to take the children in the first place and only seems to want to talk your daughter for company of the other child.
It sounds like you was back into a corner and agreed and then the fines come into play and that’s another reason for her not to go.
Also, to just take one child and not her brothers is not fair at all.
He's decisions all seem based on convenience for him and his partner.

Of you tell the school you don't agree, they might not fine you, only your ex - this is what l would do as an Attendance Officer.

But aside from that, l wouldn't want my child missing the 1st week just to keep another child company. He is trying to make you feel bad which is why he is saying all those things.

Your ex is being manipulative, using your kids to make your life more difficult, and leaving you to deal with the consequences which in this case will involve the courts and a fine. Which he has not offered to pay. You offered mediation and he refused.
See a solicitor that specialises in family law, and start documenting all of his behaviours.