Am I wrong for stopping ex from taking daughter on holiday?

[BusyLimeZebra]

Please hear me out, I really need to know if I’m a monster!!

I have 3 children (DS 14, DS 10, DD 8) with my ex, and he is with a new partner with 1 child (6 years old).

My daughter’s Dad was due to go away with his new partner in September to meet their friends abroad. However, his partner couldn’t get her ex to look after her daughter for 2 nights, so when we were swapping over one day he told me they were bringing her daughter with them instead (he also mentioned how this was annoying and an inconvenience as it’s an adults trip). I was surprised that they’d take her daughter out of school, the first week back, instead of rearrange their trip.

Shortly after this, he suggests that our daughter comes along too and references her keeping the other child company. My daughter has been desperate for a holiday with him after her Dad, his new partner and her daughter went abroad in the summer, and she got very jealous (especially after he video called her and showed the pool / games room - she burst into tears after that call)

I said I wasn’t sure this was a good idea because of:
a) it’s the first week of Year 5
b) her brothers aren’t invited and would they be ok
c) our schedules would mean I don’t see her for 3 weeks

I explained my concerns but he had already told my daughter about the trip and sold her the dream about hiking Italian mountains, climbing, etc. His partner also showed her videos of all the things she could do there. He told me I’d be adding to her jealousy (as another holiday would happen with the step sibling without her) if I stopped her going. She was obviously set on going. I was furious when she came back and said ‘Daddy says you haven’t said yes to Italy yet’, it was totally unfair to put her and I in that position.

They are driving to Italy in their camper so there’s no flight/accommodation cost, and the dates are only set to be the ones they have because they are meeting friends (friends have no kids). I suggested they change the date to the week before (last week of summer hols) so all 3 kids could come, plus it’s his week with the kids. He wouldn’t change it because that wouldn’t align with his friends.

In the end I was backed into a corner but didn’t feel comfortable at all. I said I’d agree because I didn’t want to let her down but going forwards we’d need boundaries and decisions like this shouldn’t be made without me. I asked for mediation for a parenting plan, and he said no.

BUT, then two days later I found out the law had changed for term time holidays, that we’d both be fined, and it would mean any further trips with her brothers would warrant an increased fine / court action. I raised this within and he dismissed it, said I should do what I want and he should too, and any increase fines / court action are what they are. On top of everything else, this then tipped me over and I wasn’t comfortable with this at all, back tracked, and explained I wouldn’t support it. I have suggested neither of us take them out in term time so it’s fair. I have also explained to my daughter the legal implications and whilst she was upset, she understands. I felt like I had to tell her before she continued to get her hopes up, but perhaps I shouldn’t have done, I just didn’t want her to be getting excited about something I was felt I had to stop.

Once I told him I was not going to support it, he called me emotionally abusive, said I’m being controlling, that she has picked out clothes, and that I’m a horrible person and she will hate me. He said he will take me to court and blocked me. I really just don’t feel comfortable with it, but it seems if I have an opinion or disagree I’m a monster. I do feel like because I’ve done this he will try to turn her against me though.

There is much more to our coparent relationship and various problems, but I won’t bring that into this as I really want a neutral opinion on this and whether I’m being unfair.

Also one more thing - he has taken them on numerous holidays in the past (in the holidays) and I’ve always loved that they go with him, this is the first time in 5 years that I’ve ever disagreed on something like this.

If you’ve got to the end, please can someone advise if I’m in the wrong? Will court approve this? Will my daughter hate me?

I’ve tried to make the best decision with the facts I have, it’s so hard to know sometimes, but I’m open to being told I’m wrong. I really do just want to get it right by the kids, so please be honest!

Your ex is manipulative and it sounds like DD is only invited to keep his SD company so he and his partner can enjoy themselves with their friends.
If he's that desperate to take her, he can pay all the fines.

I’d let her go as you already agreed, but ask him to pay the fine money

Doesn’t seem like he wants her there other than as company for his girlfriend’s daughter. They probably think the trip will be easier if the daughter has a friend. If he was honest and sold it to you daughter as that then maybe. But I’d never agree as he only wants to take one of the three children.

Oh my god, I’d never heard of DARVO. Just googled it, and it’s like everything now makes sense as this happens in every single thing, even with the kids. When he has lashed out and got angry (he used to be too heavy handed), he’d just blame them. He has never taken accountability for anything with me or them. Every single thing is someone else’s fault.

I’ve emailed and requested mediation (again), said I’d like a parenting plan, and as part of that we can discuss holidays, including this one. I’m open to changing my mind but I need reassurance and structure as this is just the tip of the iceberg of him doing whatever he wants and not thinking about me as the other parent, or even putting the kids at the centre of it.

I shouldn’t have caved initially and my counsellor has helped me this week with making decisions and being more confident in following what I feel is right, and not second guessing everything. I’ll do this going forwards and stop being so afraid.

Thank you everyone for your honesty, I really appreciate it and it’s helped me see everything from multiple angles.

1. He only wants his daughter to go to entertain the step-daughter.
2. The boys are left out.

I'd have said no from the beginning

I'd let your daughter go as long as your ex agrees to pay all the fine, if you are fined. Her brothers seem to be OK with it. I hope she enjoys herself.

Spot on.
"Shortly after this, he suggests that our daughter comes along too and references her keeping the other child company."

It was meant to be an adults-only holiday, that's what he still wants so only wants his daughter there to keep her daughter out of his way. What a Prince!

If she would love to go, let her go. She’ll have a lovely time and go a long way to help the feeling of abandonment she already feels from her dad.

He wanted to take only one of his 3 DC, to me it seems the only reason was to entertain his partners DD. That alone is enough reason to not agree to it. He's a nasty man and a shit father. Let him go to court, he will look an idiot.

I would let her go while she's young enough that taking her out of school during term time won't affect her much. He should pay your part of the fine and commit to not discussing things like this with your children in future until he's spoken to you.

Let her go. The boys can do a boys trip another time. Life is so short a few days out of school is nothing compared to experiences and holidays with her dad. Get him to pay the fine.

I completely agree with this.

He has completely manipulated you into saying yes and is now abusive about your decision. It’s not as though you’ve cost him airfare etc.
You will also set a precedent that he will use again and again to get his way. Stick to your guns, tell him to feel free to apply to the courts and shrug. They won’t entertain it for a second.

Yanbu. The fact that are brothers aren’t invited would be enough of a reason for me! Was he offering to pay your fine for dd being out of school? Although for me missing a week of school for a year 5 wouldn’t be a massive issue I certainly would not be paying any fine if it wasn’t me taking her!
I very much doubt any court will rule in his favour.

The fine should be split? No way. She shouldn’t be paying any of it!

You'd have to pay the fine as well ( if it's your councils policy) ours is £80 a child if you pay within 14 days. Hopefully he'd pay that though.

Also if you wanted to take her out of school again the fine is even more I believe

Oof. I can see why he’s your ex. So many reasons to say no. But, I can also see why you don’t want to disappoint your daughter when you’d already agreed to it, and you want her to maintain a good relationship with her father and not be squeezed out by the new family set up. I think your suggestion of discussing it through mediation is a good one.

I don't know why people are saying op can't change her mind. She absolutely can. We all have to make tough decisions as parents. This whole sh!t show of a situation is on dad not mum.

Op I'm glad you have explained to your daughter and she understands. If you are really backed into a corner and feel you need to let her go your ex needs to understand this is a one off and he pays the fine UPFRONT.

The way he speaks to you, that is abuse! I hope all this communication was done by text. Make sure all future communication is by text, it can be used as evidence. If it must be by phone, as soon as he starts his abuse HANG UP. I guarantee it will annoy him and he will text you. KEEP THOSE TEXT.

Don't be afraid to stand your ground to unreasonable demands.

I would let her go.

I'd let her go as long as he pays you the amount of the fine in advance.

If the other woman’s daughter had been sorted, they wouldn’t have asked yours. The exciting time to be enjoyed by a child wasn’t their first thought. Aren’t they selfish? Everyone is exploited to benefit them. Manipulative. Users.
Instinctively you feel this is wrong. Hold onto that.

Alternatively, she'll be rejected continuously by him ('Not now, go and play with DaughterOfGirlfriend, that's why we brought you, to keep her company!') and the feeling of rejection will be strongly reinforced. With no solace from mum possible until her return.

He doesn't want his daughter there for her own sake. If his girlfriend had had childcare, asking his daughter wouldn't have crossed his mind. I very much doubt she'd have "a lovely time"!

Let’s face it he’s taking his dd for his partners kid no thought to school or his other kids he just wants her to have company you said they have been away before just the 3 of them and they probably hated having to entertain her sadly your dd is being used by her own dad. Sickening to think he’s not that bothered it’s just very convenient if the partners ex had taken his kid you would not even be having this discussion. What a twat.

I think cornering you into saying yes was your only fault here. He was and is in the wrong and unfair and showing that he relies on emotional manipulation to get his way. He may fool some people but if you're calm and logical (giving the reasons) I doubt any official court or otherwise will be taken in by him. If he has form with this my suggestion would be to keep a diary (record correspondence or discussions) just in case you need it in the future.
Good luck 👍

I’d let her go tbh, I think she’ll learn more on a week in Italy than she will the first week of year 5